[bridgeboy]

I held this hand in a club game

KT8
QT432
2
8732

Partner opens 2NT (21-22, may have 5 card major)

I think it should be clear to go for game but there is a problem. I suppose it is clearly better to play in a major game if there is a fit (maybe even a moysian is better).

However, I think all the methods I know of over a 2NT opening cannot find all the possible fits , be it, Puppet stayman, Romex or natural stayman with smolen.
You have to either transfer to H (risk missing a 5-3 S fit) or stayman (unable to show 5 card H later)

My query is whether there is an easy or simple way to overcome this problem and find all your major fits if possible.

My instinct is that it is not really possible to do that below 3NT but maybe if you are willing to play 4NT sometimes when there is no fit, it might be possible.
No way to prove this though.

Thanks for comments.

[joker_gib]

With this hand I transfer and then :

2NT 3♦

3♥ : No ♥ fit, no 5 spades
3♠ : 5♠ no ♥ fit
3NT : ♥ fit, ♠ control
4♣ :♥ fit, ♣ control
4♦ : ♥ fit, ♦ control
4♥ : Great fit, all controls

If I have 5♠ then :

2NT 3♥

3♠ : No ♠ fit, no 5 hearts
3[NT] : 5♥ no ♠ fit
4♣ :♠ fit, ♣ control
4♦ : ♠ fit, ♦ control
4♥ : ♠ fit, ♥ control
4♠ : Great fit, all controls

This simple and effective.

Alain

[Walddk]

joker_gib, on Mar 14 2005, 04:31 AM, said:

With this hand I transfer and then :

2NT 3♦

3♥ : No ♥ fit, no 5 spades


Alain

Is this the way responder will bid with 4-5 in the majors too? Then over your 3♥ (no fit), he bids 3♠ showing 4?

Roland

[joker_gib]

Walddk, on Mar 14 2005, 06:43 AM, said:

joker_gib, on Mar 14 2005, 04:31 AM, said:

With this hand I transfer and then :

2NT  3♦

3♥ : No ♥ fit, no 5 spades


Alain

Is this the way responder will bid with 4-5 in the majors too? Then over your 3♥ (no fit), he bids 3♠ showing 4?

Roland

Yes !

2NT 3♦
3♥ 3♠ = 5♥ + 4♠ and the opener cue bid with ♠ fit

(which you can improve by

2NT 3♦
3♥ 3NT = 5♥ + 4♠ and the opener cue bid with ♠ fit

and

2NT 3♦
3♥ 3♠ transfer to 3NT

in order to be able to play from the big hand)


and....

2NT 3NT = 5♠ and 4♥ (better to not forget it at the table ! )

[helene_t]

Here, "fit" should read four card support, otherwise we may play in a 5-3 fit while the 4-4 fit would have been better. (Maybe not essential when responder transfers to spades since he denies a four-card hearts).

[Free]

I play similar to what Joker plays. But with 5-4M I go through 3♣... You'll never miss a Major fit, but you might end up too high by superaccepting the transfer. These things happen.

[joker_gib]

I play that any subsequent bidding on 2NT is forcing game so that it's impossible for me to play 3♥ or 3♠ !

It's a choice and I'm happy with it !

[Free]

joker_gib, on Mar 14 2005, 05:36 PM, said:

I play that any subsequent bidding on 2NT is forcing game so that it's impossible for me to play 3♥ or 3♠ !

It's a choice and I'm happy with it !

me to

[inquiry]

Free, on Mar 14 2005, 01:49 PM, said:

joker_gib, on Mar 14 2005, 05:36 PM, said:

I play that any subsequent bidding on 2NT is forcing game so that it's impossible for me to play 3♥ or 3♠ !

It's a choice and I'm happy with it ! 

me to

So your bidding...

2NT-(pass)-3♥* is game force, where 3♥ is jacoby?

[TimG]

bridgeboy, on Mar 14 2005, 04:10 AM, said:

I held this hand in a club game

KT8
QT432
2
8732

Partner opens 2NT (21-22, may have 5 card major)

I'd be content with Stayman, raising either major to four, or bidding 3♥ over 3♦. Yes, I could play a 43 spade fit instead of a 53 heart fit, but that may not be terrible (may even be good) with this hand.

Tim

[han]

There is a version of puppet stayman where you respond 3H with either 4 or 5 hearts and less than 4 spades (I guess you'd respond 3NT with both majors). This would allow you to ask for 3 hearts over 2NT-3C-3D by bidding 3S, and it would still allow you to play in 3M after a Jacoby-transfer (unless opener superaccepts).

This would work well with the given hand but wouldn't solve the problem with 5 spades and 3 hearts. Is there anybody out there who actually plays the structure I sketched above, I don't.

[Free]

inquiry, on Mar 14 2005, 07:20 PM, said:

Free, on Mar 14 2005, 01:49 PM, said:

joker_gib, on Mar 14 2005, 05:36 PM, said:

I play that any subsequent bidding on 2NT is forcing game so that it's impossible for me to play 3♥ or 3♠ !

It's a choice and I'm happy with it ! 

me to

So your bidding...

2NT-(pass)-3♥* is game force, where 3♥ is jacoby?

The only way to play 3M is if opener doesn't have support... Whenever he has support, he won't accept the transfer.

[joker_gib]

inquiry, on Mar 14 2005, 01:20 PM, said:

Free, on Mar 14 2005, 01:49 PM, said:

joker_gib, on Mar 14 2005, 05:36 PM, said:

I play that any subsequent bidding on 2NT is forcing game so that it's impossible for me to play 3♥ or 3♠ !

It's a choice and I'm happy with it ! 

me to

So your bidding...

2NT-(pass)-3♥* is game force, where 3♥ is jacoby?

Yes, it's a common treatment nowadays in France and Belgium !

[whereagles]

opposite a 20-21 or a 21-22 2NT?

[joker_gib]

I play 2NT = 20-21

[whereagles]

So what's the idea? Always play the good major-suit game and forget about sign-offs?

[helene_t]

Well, you can still try a sign-off. Partner often accepts your transfer and if he superaccepts, maybe game will make. If he shows 5 of the other major, too bad.

[joker_gib]

The idea is :

Knowing the fit at the 3 level is easier for further slam tries and control verifications (Especially for limit slam hands where fit is important).

[mike777]

Did I miss something here? Are we not always bidding some game here across from a 2nt (20 -21) opening bid? If not could someone please explain, thanks.