# BBO Discussion Forums: Opening at the 4 level - BBO Discussion Forums

• 2 Pages
• 1
• 2

## Opening at the 4 level looking to improve our methods

### #21Shugart23

• Group: Full Members
• Posts: 447
• Joined: 2013-July-07

Posted 2015-April-07, 16:50

mikestar13, on 2015-April-07, 16:38, said:

I don't believe the ACBL has an official definition (the "I know it when I see it" test). The Official Encyclopedia of Bridge, by the ACBL, does not have status of regulation, but does have a definition: a suit which can be expected to lose no tricks opposite a stiff in partner's hand and might not lose any tricks opposite a void. The Encyclopedia does not define how much better than 50% probability constitutes "expected", but it is surely more than 51% and less than 100%. ACBL is deliciously vague. (Not so delicious when you have to play under their regs.)

Interesting ...if we use the 51 percent threshold as the test, does anyone know probability of losing 1 or more tricks holding AQJxxx or AQxxxxx ?
0

### #22Vampyr

• Posts: 10,502
• Joined: 2009-September-15
• Gender:Female
• Location:London

Posted 2015-April-07, 17:06

Shugart23, on 2015-April-07, 16:50, said:

Interesting ...if we use the 51 percent threshold as the test, does anyone know probability of losing 1 or more tricks holding AQJxxx or AQxxxxx ?

It doesn't matter, because these suits are, by any definition, not solid.

The Bridge Guys' definition is at the top of page 3.

EDIT: I believe that both of your suits will lose a trick 100% of the time opposite singleton.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
0

### #23Shugart23

• Group: Full Members
• Posts: 447
• Joined: 2013-July-07

Posted 2015-April-07, 17:26

I think you are right, opposite a singleton, but on the other hand, I think I get 100% of the tricks if my partner has 6 cards in the trump suit opposite either holding :}

If Partner's singleton is a K, I dont lose a trick 100 percent of the time

This post has been edited by Shugart23: 2015-April-07, 17:35

0

### #24Shugart23

• Group: Full Members
• Posts: 447
• Joined: 2013-July-07

Posted 2015-April-07, 17:36

or perhaps even a singleton 10
0

### #25Vampyr

• Posts: 10,502
• Joined: 2009-September-15
• Gender:Female
• Location:London

Posted 2015-April-07, 18:13

Shugart23, on 2015-April-07, 17:36, said:

or perhaps even a singleton 10

Whatever. Why are you pretending not to understand what is meant by a solid suit?

And did you also not notice that this "expected" thing refers to opposite a void?

Edit: oops opposite a void it is only maybe.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
0

### #26Shugart23

• Group: Full Members
• Posts: 447
• Joined: 2013-July-07

Posted 2015-April-07, 18:23

In all seriousness, if I am going to use AWM's method, I want to have a clear conscious that it is GCC compliant. Seems like the Encyclopedia of Bridge is a reasonable authority......not really meaning to get into a pissing match with you
0

### #27nullve

• Posts: 1,465
• Joined: 2014-April-08
• Gender:Male
• Location:Norway
• Interests:partscores

Posted 2020-November-02, 17:12

Probably not a new idea:

4 = preempt in either clubs or diamonds

(4 > 3, so not a brown sticker! )
0

### #28Zelandakh

• Posts: 10,465
• Joined: 2006-May-18
• Gender:Not Telling

Posted 2020-November-03, 16:01

Nice necro! My choice is 3NT as a good 4m opening and 4m as a bad 4m opening. This keep the power of the natural preempt while offsetting its biggest drawback somewhat. For your next necro, we had a spate of threads on high level openings back in 2011-12 so just dig into those archives and have a ball!
(-: Zel :-)

half-wit -- Chas_P the racist
0