[pigpenz]

there are just too many ways to cheat......mirc, instant messaging, telephone on and on. Lets face it there is no way to really stop it. I was a District Recorder for the ACBL and had files of suspicious hands mostly bidding that is about as close as you can come to keeping a record of ones activity then waht you do with it is up to the league or governing body.

[Brandal]

pigpenz, on Apr 25 2005, 08:51 AM, said:

there are just too many ways to cheat......mirc, instant messaging, telephone on and on. Lets face it there is no way to really stop it. I was a District Recorder for the ACBL and had files of suspicious hands mostly bidding that is about as close as you can come to keeping a record of ones activity then waht you do with it is up to the league or governing body.

It's come to a point now where it's basically taking away from
my enjoyment on BBO.
I enjoy kibbing as much as playing and almost all the "serious" tourneys
now disallow kibbing.

Those who cheat will cheat,no matter what.

[Rain]

Brandal, on Apr 17 2005, 03:07 AM, said:

In tourneys,now with the rightclick option to Follow this player
in tourney,how about the kibitzer doing so is only allowed
to see one hand,the hand of the player he wants to kibitz?

With no other way to enter a tourney as kib,but always
allowing to kib ONE of the hands,I would be fine with that
too

Cheaters can always choose to follow and kibitz a player in the opposite direction. Disallowing kibs entirely will minimise opportunities to cheat. Old song, old tune.

[Brandal]

Rain, on Jun 19 2005, 03:00 PM, said:

Brandal, on Apr 17 2005, 03:07 AM, said:

In tourneys,now with the rightclick option to Follow this player
in tourney,how about the kibitzer doing so is only allowed
to see one hand,the hand of the player he wants to kibitz?

With no other way to enter a tourney as kib,but always
allowing to kib ONE of the hands,I would be fine with that
too

Cheaters can always choose to follow and kibitz a player in the opposite direction. Disallowing kibs entirely will minimise opportunities to cheat. Old song, old tune.

my sincere apologies for having such a lame suggestion

[jillybean]

More and more free tournaments now have a ban on kibitzers. I am starting a new announcement in my tournaments, something like “some tournaments ban kibitzers because of fear of cheating, I welcome kibitzers to help FIND the cheaters”.

Uday – please can we have an automatic setting on the tournament info screen to indicate if kibitzers are banned. People can then make an intelligent decision to join or sub in these tournaments, as it is you don’t know until the tournament has started.

jb

[olegru]

jillybean2, on Jun 23 2005, 09:44 AM, said:

some tournaments ban kibitzers because of fear of cheating,

I am not sure, if it is correct. When I directed my first BBO tounament, my friend, who is experienced BBO TD adviced to ban kibitzers because of substitute issue. Free tournaments are always short of subs and director is not happy if he can't use registred substitutes, because they decided to kibitz.

[jillybean]

true, I have heard that too but I have not experienced problems getting subs.

Perhaps subs are avoiding tournaments that ban kibitzers.

[ellie26]

jillybean2, I like your idea !!

The announcement should go a long way to help discourage cheaters. At least it brings attention to the fact that they are being watched.

Hope more think seriously about your suggestion.

ellie

[luke warm]

let's just start a 'cheaters anonymous' club complete with a 12 step program... yellows can log the ip's of all who join and every 6 months just ban 'em all

you'll never stop it, let me kib!!! i doubt i'd notice cheating if it bit me in the ass

[bearmum]

Brandal, on Mar 12 2005, 07:27 AM, said:

A tourney just now

6 tables.......9 star/world class players.

Maybe I'll kibitz,it will be almost like vugraph....

But oooohhhhh nooooooo......disallowed


I don't really know what to say,I just dislike not
being able to kib the "creme de la creme".

would stars /world class players NEED to cheat??

IF they do maybe BBO needs to change the way that players are rated??( especially "self ratings" )

[bearmum]

mrdct, on Mar 30 2005, 07:55 PM, said:

Brandal, on Mar 14 2005, 06:22 AM, said:

Firstly,I don't consider it a "right" to be able to kibitz.

The Laws of Bridge DO give kibitzers the right to kibitz.

I believe ONLY if the players at the actual table agree BUT willing to be corrected ( and maybe different in other countries than Australia

[bearmum]

Brandal, on Apr 17 2005, 10:07 PM, said:

mrdct, on Mar 30 2005, 01:55 AM, said:

Brandal, on Mar 14 2005, 06:22 AM, said:

Firstly,I don't consider it a "right" to be able to kibitz.

The Laws of Bridge DO give kibitzers the right to kibitz.

My remark was aimed at tourneys disallowing kibitzers,
that's why I put right in " " and followed with to be ABLE
to kibitz.

In tourneys,now with the rightclick option to Follow this player
in tourney,how about the kibitzer doing so is only allowed
to see one hand,the hand of the player he wants to kibitz?

With no other way to enter a tourney as kib,but always
allowing to kib ONE of the hands,I would be fine with that
too

Looks good to me

[mr1303]

Gold stars aren't given to people based on their online playing ability. You have to win a major championship to get one of those.

And the ACBL masterpoints, like all masterpoints, are given to those who play frequently, not necessarily those who are good.

BBO is well known for not giving out ratings

[pigpenz]

i thought to get a star all you have to have done is represent your country in a world event...or get Fred to give you one, as he has the final say so in such manners.

[McBruce]

Walddk, on Mar 30 2005, 02:07 AM, said:

mrdct, on Mar 30 2005, 01:55 AM, said:

Brandal, on Mar 14 2005, 06:22 AM, said:

Firstly,I don't consider it a "right" to be able to kibitz.

The Laws of Bridge DO give kibitzers the right to kibitz.

Well, it's correct that spectators are not disallowed according to the Laws of Duplicate Bridge, but whether that is the same as they have the right to spec is a matter of interpretation. You may argue, of course, that if it's not specifically stated that spectators are not allowed, it must mean that they have this right. Judge for yourselves:

LAW 76 - SPECTATORS
A. Conduct during Bidding or Play
1. One Hand Only
A spectator should not look at the hand of more than one player, except by permission.
2. Personal Reaction
A spectator must not display any reaction to the bidding or play while a deal is in progress.
3. Mannerisms or Remarks
During the round, a spectator must refrain from mannerisms or remarks of any kind (including conversation with a player).
4. Consideration for Players
A spectator must not in any way disturb a player.


B. Spectator Participation
A spectator may not call attention to any irregularity or mistake, nor speak on any question of fact or law except by request of the Director.

....

Roland

Not to mention the simple fact that the Lawmakers would define a spectator as a physical presence at the table, whose movements can be easily seen. Online spectators are quite different:

--they can arrive and leave without being noticed
--they can talk to other spectators without being noticed
--they can send information to other people without being noticed

The WBF Laws Comission, I suspect, had no idea we were going to broaden the role and possibilities of spectators when Law 76 was last reviewed.

[jillybean]

pigpenz, on Jun 27 2005, 02:25 PM, said:

i thought to get a star all you have to have done is represent your country in a world event...or get Fred to give you one, as he has the final say so in such manners.

Oh, is that all you have to do!

[Brandal]

inquiry, on Mar 14 2005, 10:18 PM, said:

The self-kibitzer seldom sits at the same table with "themselves".

Ben

So a cheater needs 2 computers I guess....

So a cheater probably has to find a table to "self-kib"
that plays in about the same tempo,being on the same
board as the cheater I guess....

It will be more confusing than helpful because the
cheater also has to assess all 4 hands,and maybe have
one eye on the other board than he is playing himself
because I guess a self-kibber would play slower so the
table he is kibbing might be in the middle of next board
before he finishes his first....

In order to make cheating effective the partner probably
has to be in on the cheat,so maybe they also have to exchange
info on msn or yahoo or whatever.

I would think all this would distract most players more than it
would help them get a good result,but ofcourse that's just my
personal take/opinion.

I read somewhere that someone accused of cheating because
of strange play etc. ended dead last,well maybe they WERE
cheating and just didn't have time to focus on playing?


I think that most "successful" cheaters only use a chatprogramme
to tell eachother what they hold,and agree upon a contract and
use it for best defense also.

I also think the best way to prevent cheating is to program into
BBO that you can't log on or be on BBO with a chatprogramme
running.

Oh well.....I guess kibitzing tourneys is gone for good,just needed to
vent again

[helene_t]

Brandal, on Jul 6 2005, 12:25 PM, said:

I also think the best way to prevent cheating is to program into
BBO that you can't log on or be on BBO with a chatprogramme
running.

I don't think that's possible, since Windows can't distinguish chat software from other software.

[mr1303]

And apart from anything else, it would be deeply unpopular amongst those who don't use it for cheating purposes, but want to talk to their friends who don't play bridge. This I think would drive people away from BBO and onto other bridge sites.

[Brandal]

mr1303, on Jul 6 2005, 06:02 AM, said:

And apart from anything else, it would be deeply unpopular amongst those who don't use it for cheating purposes, but want to talk to their friends who don't play bridge. This I think would drive people away from BBO and onto other bridge sites.

I agree.....I didn't mean it should be done.

but then I also think disallowing kibs might drive away a few,
who might only be there when playing now,me being one.