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Blackwood or limit invitation?

#1 User is offline   HG 

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Posted 2003-April-25, 22:56

In the following bidding sequence, what does the
4NT bid means?
Is  It blackwood, or is It a limit invitation bid to 6NT ?

         S        N
        ------------
       1NT     2C
       2H       4NT

                                          Haim
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#2 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2003-April-25, 23:17

It is what you and your partner have decided it should be. I play it as B'wood, but then again we play 1NT 2S as a range ask.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#3 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2003-April-26, 00:11

H.H. is right and I play it like he does. However, without any discussion, I would play it as invitation. It had been easy to force me with other bids, no need to bid blackwood now.

Kind Regards

Roland
Kind Regards

Roland


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More system is not the answer...
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Posted 2003-April-26, 04:39

Quote

In the following bidding sequence, what does the
4NT bid means?
Is  It blackwood, or is It a limit invitation bid to 6NT ?

         S        N
        ------------
       1NT     2C
       2H       4NT

                                          Haim


Without specific agreement this should be a limited invintational bid, and 4C would be ace asking (since you have no specific agreement, 4C would not be a splinter bid). Some people play kickback here (and 4C as splinter)....

1N 2C
2H 4S  <<----  kickback RKCB.

Since 4S has no need to be natural over 2H. Eddie Kantar on his excellent webpage (www.kantarbridge.com) recommends using a jumpt to 4C as roman keycard blackwood on this auction (1N-2C-2H-4C)...

Obviously, you would need to agree how to handle this stuff.
--Ben--

#5 User is online   hrothgar 

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Posted 2003-April-26, 05:25

Quote


Without specific agreement this should be a limited invintational bid, and 4C would be ace asking (since you have no specific agreement, 4C would not be a splinter bid).


It is logically inconsistent to assert that 4C can't be a splinter because splinters are conventional and you have no explicit agreement and then to suggest that 4C should default to RKCB (another conventional treatment)

If I were playing opposite an unknown (skilled) partner for the first time I would assume that this is a splinter, just as I would assume that the sequence

1D - 1H
4C

is a splinter raise of hearts.

Blackwood is a tool to avoid bad slams.
Showing shape, shortage, and controls is how you find good ones.
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Posted 2003-April-26, 07:30

Quote


It is logically inconsistent to assert that 4C can't be a splinter because splinters are conventional and you have no explicit agreement and then to suggest that 4C should default to RKCB (another conventional treatment)

If I were playing opposite an unknown (skilled) partner for the first time I would assume that this is a splinter, just as I would assume that the sequence

1D - 1H
4C

is a splinter raise of hearts.

Blackwood is a tool to avoid bad slams.
Showing shape, shortage, and controls is how you find good ones.


I didn't mean to imply the you can not assume SPLINTER bids with random parnters. That is double jumpshifts played as splinters are more or less standard. But even then with random partners disagreements can occur. I had a random partner in MSN zone do this to me a while back....

1H-P-4C    <--- ok, the world plays this as splinter, but some play this as gerber. I had the forsight to announce that 4C was asking for aces only over Notrump so I knew this was a splinter. Sadly, he meant it as "premptive", and he called question my experience as a bridge player when I rebid my not too strong five card heart suit over this. He then left the table leaving me to struggle in a 5-1 fit at the four level.

However, it safe to play....
1H-3S/4C/4D  as splinter without prior announcement.

I also think it is safe to play these as splinters
1C-1H
?  <---3D, 3S, and 4D are safely assumed as splinters since 2D and 2S are forcing reverses. Having said that, I played with a semi-regular partner on the BBO and the bidding went 1c-1s-3D-4s, only to find partner had a real good hand with very strong minor two suiter. He meant the jump reverse as extra strong two suiter. In his mind, only 1C-1H-4D was splinter.

But on tihs auction, the meaning of 4C has to be a partnership agreement.

1N-2C
2H-4C     Now with a pickup partner you are really out on a limb. It could be gerber, it could be forcing hand with clubs, it could be splinter, it could be "fit-jump". If I was playing with a good partner, with no prior discussion, I guess I respond to it as if was a splinter.
--Ben--

#7 User is offline   Yzerman 

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Posted 2003-May-06, 16:42

Here is what i like to play over 1N-2C-2M;

Baze -

1nt-2c-2h-3s= unbalanced slam try in hearts, 3nt asks
1nt-2c-2s-3h=unbalanced slam try in spades, 3nt asks
1nt-2c-2M=4c= kcb in M
1nt-2c-2M-4d= balanced slam try in M

* Hence direct 4NT become quantitative.

This work very nice and can be modified or tweaked to your liking (eg you can add kickback in for hearts, etc).
MAL
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Posted 2003-May-08, 05:59

Quote

Here is what i like to play over 1N-2C-2M;

Baze -

1nt-2c-2h-3s= unbalanced slam try in hearts, 3nt asks
1nt-2c-2s-3h=unbalanced slam try in spades, 3nt asks
1nt-2c-2M=4c= kcb in M
1nt-2c-2M-4d= balanced slam try in M

* Hence direct 4NT become quantitative.

This work very nice and can be modified or tweaked to your liking (eg you can add kickback in for hearts, etc).


I've played this before. Just didn't know the name. Pretty good agreement to have.

Ben
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