[Flame]

Had a triable match vs very good players, we lost 25-1
We had two misunderstandings.
The first
2♣ -2♦(weak, or wait)
2NT -3♥(trans)
3♠-4♦(natural)
4NT
what is 4nt here ?
the second
1♠ (3♦) D (3♥)
D
What is this double ?

[luke warm]

Quote

2♣ -2♦(weak, or wait)
2NT -3♥(trans)
3♠-4♦(natural)
4NT
what is 4nt here ?

2 spades, 3 diamonds, 22-24 hcp i guess

Quote

1♠ (3♦) D (3♥)
D
What is this double ?

i think i'd view it as penalty if the first double was negative

[Chamaco]

Quote

2♣ -2♦(weak, or wait)
2NT -3♥(trans)
3♠-4♦(natural)
4NT
what is 4nt here ?

At IMPS, plain Ace ask.
It makes sense to be able to stop in 4NT *at pairs*, where 5D would score less than NT games. But at teams, it is better to orient the system towards not missing slams and content ourselves of bid a few more games in the minors rather than in NT.

Here, the strong balanced opener almost surely has 3 card support for one of responder's red suits (this sequence guarantees at least 55, if not 65).
So, if slam is not there, opener could simply have signed off in 4H or 5D.

Quote

1♠ (3♦) D (3♥)
D
What is this double ?

Takeout, very strong hand.
Shape and hcp can vary: the more offshape, the more hcp opener needs.
Sample hands:

AKJxx-AQx-Jxx-AJ--->offshape hand but extra hcp
AKxxx-x-Axx-KQJx---> minimum hcp but perfect shape


[EDIT: I had not seen responder's double. In that case, my view is that opener is strongly suggesting a penalty]

[Walddk]

Flame, on Mar 3 2005, 07:49 AM, said:

Had a triable match vs very good players, we lost 25-1
We had two misunderstandings.
The first
2♣ -2♦(weak, or wait)
2NT -3♥(trans)
3♠-4♦(natural)
4NT
what is 4nt here ?
the second
1♠ (3♦) D (3♥)
D
What is this double ?

1. Sign off, no slam interest, typically 2-3 in spades and diamonds. Could conceivably be 2-4 with honour concentration in hearts and clubs.

2. Extras, no clear direction (or no descriptive bid available if you like).

Roland

[inquiry]

Auction one. No heart fit, concentration of hcp in the black suits. Willingness to play 4NT

Auction two. Penalty, also leaning towards psyche exposing double. Partner doubled 3♦ showeing hearts and likely clubs. With hearts you double here, without hearts you can rebid spades or clubs. It is highly unlikley that RHO can have enough to make a forcing call in the unbid major after 1) You opened, and 2) partner made a negative double..but it doesn't have to show four hearts, Three to the Qxx and values is fine.

[TimG]

First hand: Certainly not ace (or keycard) asking. If opener really likes a spades or diamonds, he can cue-bid a club or heart control to say so. Responder is the captain here; makes little sense for opener to be taking over.

Second hand: a not-purely-penalty, penalty double. Responder has shown hearts, so opener doesn't need a trump stack, just s defensive oriented hand, I wouldn't even require extras, just a strong preference for defending.

[hotShot]

Board 1:
3♥ was transfer! If you read the original post. But I don't see a fit here, so I don't
think NT is about aces.

Board 2:
Should be penalty, if the other double was ether negative or takeout.

[Flame]

Ok thxs so far, now what do you bid with my hand
1.

---

THinking partner will have a heart suit i decided it is better to bid 2d over 2c and not 2s , is that good ? anyway what do i bid over 4NT? (Partner is known to be a bit agressive with his NT bids)
2.

---

I decided to double 3D, do you think it was a right decision ? and what do you bid over partner's double of 3H ? (all vul)

[Walddk]

hotShot, on Mar 3 2005, 09:14 AM, said:

Board 2:
Should be penalty, if the other double was ether negative or takeout.

Penalty doubles hardly exist any more for a start. Partner has hearts, so he can leave my double in if he prefers. Secondly, why am I not allowed to show extras with a hand that is stuck for a bid?

AKJxx
xx
Qx
AQxx

Ben wants me to bid 4♣ with that hand I take it. That would look silly if the right spot was 3NT or 3♥X.

Roland

[Walddk]

Flame, on Mar 3 2005, 09:20 AM, said:

Ok thxs so far, now what do you bid with my hand
1.

---

THinking partner will have a heart suit i decided it is better to bid 2d over 2c and not 2s , is that good ? anyway what do i bid over 4NT? (Partner is known to be a bit agressive with his NT bids)
2.

---

I decided to double 3D, do you think it was a right decision ? and what do you bid over partner's double of 3H ? (all vul)

1. PASS.

2. 5♣. I don't mind the double of 3♦ since it shows 4 hearts. Now we must get to clubs. I bid what I think I can make when partner shows extras. We may have a slam on, but that would be pure guessing.

"Plussschreiben und gewinnen". The same German sentence I have used before. This time it means that "the scores belong in the WE column".

4♣ is non forcing, so that's out of the question.

Roland

[Flame]

Walddk, on Mar 3 2005, 09:27 AM, said:

4♣ is non forcing, so that's out of the question.

What would you bid if you play with Ben (who think double of 3h is penalty) ?
I thought like Ben that we must have a way to expose this kind of psychs, bidding 3h at these situations is free when you have a diamond fit.

[TimG]

Flame, on Mar 3 2005, 09:20 AM, said:

2.

---

I decided to double 3D, do you think it was a right decision ? and what do you bid over partner's double of 3H ? (all vul)

I don't like the negative double (I'd hate for partner to convert it to penalty), but seems you got away with it. You wanted to bid 4-non-forcing-clubs, which is why you started with a double, now I'd follow through and bid 4C. Yes, they could be trying to steal our heart fit, but I don't really care so much with the clubs I'm holding. I think with 55 in the majors, opener should have bid 4H over 3H, so that his double here just shows defensive orientation, not a true heart stack.

They may have made things difficult for us with the 3H bid (which could be a non-suit), but sometimes they get us, and the auction is not over. Though I'm not confident that we'll ever be able to stop in hearts without doing some guessing.

[shanbari]

partner's 3h x is penalty, so i pass the x to confirm my 4card hearts.
if opp pull to 4d, and partner didn't bid 4h, then i would bid 5c later on.


SHAN