[scsm1963]

10 trick hand is not a 4!s opening!! Should be opened 2!c and then bid 4!s. 4!s opening promises 7-8 tricks with no slam aspirations. P not to raise unless has controls in a suites. A or KQ so that cannot lose 2 quick tricks

[fourdad]

This is what happens when you preempt with a hand that is not a preempt.
4 losers at MOST. 2C is a clear bid and slam will be easy.

[whereagles]

A BBOer once classified players like North as:

"Experts like those I can get at the local bazaar for 0.10 cent/kilo."

[diana_eva]

whereagles, on 2014-December-28, 05:35, said:

A BBOer once classified players like North as:

"Experts like those I can get at the local bazaar for 0.10 cent/kilo."

North was not an expert, was intermediate. Which is one more reason why I was extremely tempted to raise.

[whereagles]

oh sorry.. I swear I saw it somewhere it was an expert.

Opposite an intermediate I wouldn't raise. You never know what sort of stuff people open 4S on...

[GrahamJson]

Opposite some 4S bids I have seen on BBO 8NT would be an underbid. Playing with a random partner it's a complete guess what to do. Playing with a sensible partner it's a clea pass.

[steve2005]

P_Marlowe, on 2014-December-27, 11:38, said:

Lets make the North hand more realistic, exchange the Ace of hearts with a small x,
4S is now a reasonable opening bid.
Besides, ... as long as we give opener a running spade suit, the slam may be on,
unless they lead hearts.
Having said this, playing with a random p, assuming he has a running suit is betting
with low odds of winning.

Solid spades without some convention to show such a hand I open 1♠ in 1st and 2nd. add A♥ and even thinking 2♣. I don't see how you can bid 6 off 2♥ and maybe A♠. Bidding 6♠ with a void and I say you psychically knew p has solid ♠

[iandayre]

diana_eva, on 2014-December-27, 10:10, said:

I passed too. Pd wasn't happy, but before storming off he was kind enough to explain why I owed him a raise: "My 10 tricks + 2 aces = 12" Duh!!!

FWIW the field agreed, our table was the only one in game I know it's silly, but I learned something for random play

Why punish your next random partner, who may know how to bid, because of this one who doesn't?

[bdegrande]

It's a 3 loser hand. It is closer to a 2♣ opener than a 4♠ opener. I don't like to open 2♣ on extreme shape hands with limited defensive values, so I open i♠.

[steve2005]

Smiles3usa, on 2014-December-28, 04:55, said:

I'd pass and explain why I passed I'd also ask what why he though that a preempt in second seat sufficiently described his hand. With the hand as shown, I can only see a 2!c opener. But I'd really like to hear why a 4!s opener is a decent option here -- I really cannot see it.

what I don't get is how is the field going 4♠-6♠ or some such. my partners don't have 10 tricks when they open 4♠

[snillrik13]

Spades is the boss suit or have I missed something? So you just open 1!S with a random partner and listen - no hurry. Vulnerable against White I cannot see six-loser hands or more be actual for a 4!S preempt. With your regular partner you surely apply Namyats or Another strong opening.

[neilkaz]

I am happy to open 2♣ and jump to 4♠ with two aces and 10 tricks. Or just open 1♠

[monikrazy]

4S is horrendous.

Pass by default seems like the correct bid. If partnership is playing sound preempts another bid seems reasonable (which one, I'm not sure).

[Mbodell]

Opposite my 2nd seat unfavorable IMP 4♠ opener I'm not sure what is right. I suspect investigating 6♠ may be right (say 5♠). Might be an interesting sim. 1st seat doesn't have an opening hand (including preempts), partner has 11-15 hcp with 7♠, or 10 or less hcp with 8♠. 3rd seat has no 8+ card suit? The minor suit winners will often allow pitches of heart losers. Even if partner doesn't have the heart A, opponents might not lead heart. My guess is we have on average something like 0.8 heart losers and 0.6 spade losers and 0.05 minor losers.

[diana_eva]

Mbodell, on 2014-December-30, 03:39, said:

Opposite my 2nd seat unfavorable IMP 4♠ opener I'm not sure what is right. I suspect investigating 6♠ may be right (say 5♠). Might be an interesting sim. 1st seat doesn't have an opening hand (including preempts), partner has 11-15 hcp with 7♠, or 10 or less hcp with 8♠. 3rd seat has no 8+ card suit? The minor suit winners will often allow pitches of heart losers. Even if partner doesn't have the heart A, opponents might not lead heart. My guess is we have on average something like 0.8 heart losers and 0.6 spade losers and 0.05 minor losers.

I have an expert partner who preempts very sound vul, so the purpose of this thread was not only to get the funny comment in, but also to get a feel of what kind of hands people would preempt with at that level and that vul. As someone else mentioned before, that side Ace wasn't even necessary for slam to be on, so with this particular partner I would definitely be tempted to make a move and not feel silly about it if it doesn't work out. We haven't actually discussed continuations. 5♠ asking suit quality? 5♣ inviting pd to cue outside values if he has them? Either way, I can see slam making opposite a less monstrous, yet sound hand. The consensus seems to be though that either people would rather not preempt their own partner, or preempt with much less.

[Jinksy]

I'll add 2♣ to the vote for opener. Don't normally like it on low HCP hands with playing strength, but here you have 10 cold tricks, so you don't want 1 to be passed out, and you have the boss suit in case they start trying to push you around.