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Poll poll

Poll: Poll poll (25 member(s) have cast votes)

After changing my mind on your poll, what would you prefer I do?

  1. Leave it as it was originally unless I'd missed a key factor (12 votes [48.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 48.00%

  2. Leave it as it was originally (5 votes [20.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  3. Delete it (1 votes [4.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.00%

  4. Update it (5 votes [20.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  5. Other (2 votes [8.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.00%

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#1 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2014-November-23, 19:21

A frequent experience for me here is read a thread with a poll, try to make sure I've formed a view before reading the replies or seeing the votes, and vote mainly to commit myself to it - then read the replies and find them persuasive enough to change my mind.

I'm never sure what to do then, since it depends on the type of data the OP wants to gather. Clearly my opinion is now compromised, so perhaps I should just delete the vote and not resubmit. But then, once I've updated based on new information, my vote is still data to be weighed against the votes of anyone who didn't agree with the argument. But also if you're trying to get a feeling for how many others would have chosen a particular action, then my initial vote might even be worth more, particularly if I've mainly shifted my view because of the calibre of people who disagree rather than because someone's pointed out a key factor I hadn't thought of.

So which is the most helpful action?
The "4 is a transfer to 4" award goes to Jinksy - PhilKing
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#2 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2014-November-23, 20:13

I only update (change) if I have missed a significant condition in the OP or otherwise dumbed up and been informed of it by a poster clearly.

Pure opinions, even from the elite, I leave alone even if I will change my opinion in the future and even if others will see my stupid choice.
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#3 User is offline   diana_eva 

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Posted 2014-November-24, 02:05

Same as agua, I only delete/update when I feel my vote can be "damaging", because I got something completely wrong.

If it's just a bad choice, I don't edit, even if I change my mind about it later on, from reading the replies.

#4 User is offline   diana_eva 

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Posted 2014-November-24, 02:14

View PostJinksy, on 2014-November-23, 19:21, said:

if you're trying to get a feeling for how many others would have chosen a particular action, then my initial vote might even be worth more, particularly if I've mainly shifted my view because of the calibre of people who disagree rather than because someone's pointed out a key factor I hadn't thought of.



Yep, this is why I do not change my vote when it was what I genuinely thought at the time. I think it is useful for people to see that there are others who misjudged, or had the same thought process as them, and then have been enlightened by the replies.

#5 User is offline   Cthulhu D 

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Posted 2014-November-24, 03:30

One thing, I wish more polls had a nullo vote option like 'candy' 'open out of turn' 'revoke' or a 'I'm sure at the table I'd do something moronic' options, because a substantial minority of the time that is what I want to vote. This is particularly true when someone has posted a poll in the expert forum. I could of course vote, but I am not an expert and am probably just statistical noise.

Include a I am not an expert option or similar pollsters!
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#6 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2014-November-24, 04:50

View PostJinksy, on 2014-November-23, 19:21, said:

A frequent experience for me here is read a thread with a poll, try to make sure I've formed a view before reading the replies or seeing the votes, and vote mainly to commit myself to it - then read the replies and find them persuasive enough to change my mind. I'm never sure what to do then, since it depends on the type of data the OP wants to gather. Clearly my opinion is now compromised, so perhaps I should just delete the vote and not resubmit. But then, once I've updated based on new information, my vote is still data to be weighed against the votes of anyone who didn't agree with the argument. But also if you're trying to get a feeling for how many others would have chosen a particular action, then my initial vote might even be worth more, particularly if I've mainly shifted my view because of the calibre of people who disagree rather than because someone's pointed out a key factor I hadn't thought of. So which is the most helpful action?
IMO if exposure to the opinions of others causes you to doubt your original view.
  • You shouldn't change your vote simply because of the number or calibre of those with a different view. You should bow to authority only in areas of relative ignorance, which you don't want to explore further. If you want to learn Bridge (as I do), then you should try to understand the arguments of other players', not simply take their conclusions on trust.
  • You should change your vote when the arguments of others convince you. Changing your vote shows that you are bright enough to recognise and correct mistakes. It's good for the soul. Also, I think the priority for most pollsters is to find the best answer, not simply how many made the same mistake that they did. If an OP wants to know how others rate his action, he should include it among other options and ask players to award them marks out of ten.
  • When you create a poll, you should click the "Public Poll" box so that pollees can see how each other voted. In particular, you can see how experts voted.

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#7 User is offline   diana_eva 

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Posted 2014-November-24, 07:22

View Postnige1, on 2014-November-24, 04:50, said:

  • You should change your vote when the arguments of others convince you. Changing your vote is a recognition that you are bright enough to recognise and correct mistakes. It's good for the soul. Also, I think the priority for most pollsters is to find the best answer, not simply how many made the same mistake that they did. If an OP wants to know how others rate his action, he should include it among other options and ask players to award them marks out of ten.


Depends on what the poll is. If it's something like "Would you pass/pull/raise/double, etc" it's OK to leave the original vote in, IMO, because that is what you would have done before reading the comments. If it's something like "What is the correct play here: small to the T, hook blah" something that is not a personal choice but rather a technical issue then I understand your argument. Yeah leaving a bad vote in is not helpful for such polls and it might be better to change it when you see it was wrong. Otherwise, by applying the logic "I am bright enough to admit my mistakes" to all polls we could simply read the whole thread, form an opinion, and then vote. Why vote, read, update?

#8 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2014-November-24, 07:30

I think the purpose of a poll is to find out what people think independent of each other. Following this, I never change a poll vote, and I never vote at all if I read the responses first.
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#9 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2014-November-24, 10:28

View Postnige1, on 2014-November-24, 04:50, said:

IMO if exposure to the opinions of others causes you to doubt your original view.
  • You shouldn't change your vote simply because of the number or calibre of those with a different view. You should bow to authority only in areas of relative ignorance, which you don't want to explore further. If you want to learn Bridge (as I do), then you should try to understand the arguments of other players', not simply take their conclusions on trust.


As a general rule, I obviously want a reason to change my mind. But realistically, not all posts go very deep into the reasoning, and it's not such a black&white thing - sometimes people will make a superficial argument, sometimes in moderate depth. And the person posting it might be PhantomSac, or a lesser but significantly stronger player than you, or a group of people of similar ability. Other peoples' opinion carries evidential weight, and if you never update your beliefs because it, then you're not being epistemically sound - especially in a game like bridge where mathematical proof of any claim is near-impossible.

That said, there's a difference between changing my mind and changing my vote, and they don't have exactly the same purpose. One is for my benefit, the other is for the askers'.

Quote

  • When you create a poll, you should click the "Public Poll" box so that pollees can see how each other voted. In particular, you can see how experts voted.



  • Yeah, I only recently noticed this option. I'm trying to remember to use it in all polls (evidently I'm forgetting quite a lot ^).
    The "4 is a transfer to 4" award goes to Jinksy - PhilKing
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    #10 User is offline   MrAce 

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    Posted 2014-November-24, 11:08

    You can always write a comment saying something like "even though I voted for option a, I am convinced that option b is better". I had seen people doing this, including me, and I find it perfectly normal to be persuaded by other's arguments, whether we admit it or not.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that we should always announce the change of mind for the record, however I have been going through old topics lately and making a collection of comments by same people who are arguing totally the opposite of what they said in the past, including myself, and I find it quite amusing how strongly one can argue both sides of the argument in different times Posted Image. Not only that but can actually be mean to another poster for arguing the option that we advocated in the past. Posted Image
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    #11 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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    Posted 2014-November-24, 11:18

    I never change my vote but often post what I was thinking at the time even when I'm wrong. Looking like an idiot is the best part of my game.
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