[cherdano]

In this deal, I see nothing to distrust the LAW. They are only in a 7cd fit (I really think partner should not bid like this with a void), we most liklely don't have an 8cd fit either. 14 total trumps, so if they make 2♠, we are down 3 doubled. Yes there are deals with 16 total tricks and 14 total trumps, but here I have (very) slow spade tricks, and me (the short trump hand) has no ruffing value.

I admit that it is hard to construct hands where everyone has his bid (sounds like my LHO is Ben ), but in that case I trust partner.

Arend

[inquiry]

TimG, on Feb 17 2005, 10:02 AM, said:

I can understand East trying to play in clubs after the takeout double (though I would just pass) and then taking preference to spades over opener's 2H. But, why on earth would he redouble with that hand?

Tim

Well, the trick is to try to come up with a hand consistent with the bidding. As north, I wouldn't make a second takeout double with a void in their suit, so spades are 5-1-2-5 around the table. Trying to figure out what 2♥ "I don't like clubs" means is a little tricky. Does West's, I don't like clubs mean a club void (since his partner can be very weak with 6/7 clubs? Does "I don't like clubs" mean singleton and great second suit?

I think we can discount a great second suit, so West has 0 or 1 club. If he has no clubs, then they are really in trouble EVEN if EAST has the club AQ.. .as there will not be an entry to it (East can hardly have AQ of clubs and a spade entry), and partner can't be 5-5 in the reds becasue no michaels, and no 2NT takeout here.

In addition, West can't be 5-4-4-0, or he might bid 2♦, I don't like clubs rather than 2♥, I don't like clubs. So now we are ready to see the distibution. Your 5-5-2-1 is possisble, but so is 5-5-3-0.

As for EAST's redouble... Well, maybe he has ♠K and west the ♠Q. With Kx of spades, two side queens and ruffing value in hearts, a redouble isn't horrible. I wouldn't redouble... but you are betting it is your partner, not your opponent, who made the mistake. Try to play with better partners, and back your partner. I like it when my partners trust my bids more than my opponents.

Ben

[TimG]

inquiry, on Feb 17 2005, 09:20 AM, said:

Try to play with better partners, and back your partner. I like it when my partners trust my bids more than my opponents.

This wasn't my partner, it was Free's partner (or Free)!

I do think redouble is nuts with the ♠K, a couple of queens and a ruffing value, especially with only two trumps and an obvious trump lead coming.

I think it's more likely that my pickup partner has made a questionable balance than RHO made a questionable redouble.

Anyway, I justsaid I could imagine 840. I didn't say there was anything to be done about it. I mostly agree with those that suggest any three-level contract could be just as bad or worse. And, I really don't see +1600 unless one of the opponents has simply gone crazy.

[inquiry]

TimG, on Feb 17 2005, 10:43 AM, said:

inquiry, on Feb 17 2005, 09:20 AM, said:

Try to play with better partners, and back your partner. I like it when my partners trust my bids more than my opponents.

This wasn't my partner, it was Free's partner (or Free)!

I do think redouble is nuts with the ♠K, a couple of queens and a ruffing value, especially with only two trumps and an obvious trump lead coming.

I think it's more likely that my pickup partner has made a questionable balance than RHO made a questionable redouble.

Anyway, I justsaid I could imagine 840. I didn't say there was anything to be done about it. I mostly agree with those that suggest any three-level contract could be just as bad or worse. And, I really don't see +1600 unless one of the opponents has simply gone crazy.

+!600 is best result possible, +1000 or +400 seems more likely. I have to admit, i would be very disappointed if 2♠xx made here. But, of course, if you pass 2♠XX, partner might bid.. that is, the auction isn't over yet.

[cherdano]

inquiry, on Feb 17 2005, 01:56 PM, said:

You came up with a funky hand, but if i was to come up what a complete hand, I would draw up something like...

Dealer: ????? Vul: ???? Scoring: Unknown

♠ J ♥ AJxx ♦ AJxxx ♣ AKJ ♠ AKxxx ♥ KQxxx ♦ xx ♣ x ♠ Qx ♥ x ♦ Qxxx ♣ Q9xxxx ♠ T9876 ♥ T9x ♦ KT ♣ T84

And technically, this is probably a minimum for partner.

I think if you move the ♥Q from LHO to RHO and a low diamond back (or ♥K to RHO and the low heart back), then everybody has his bid. At least, I will open with AKxxx Kxxx xxx x, would balance with partner's hand, and might redouble on Kx Qx Qxx Q9xxxx on a bad day, or even on Kx K Qxxx Q9xxxx on a very bad day

Arend

[TimG]

cherdano, on Feb 17 2005, 09:54 AM, said:

At least, I will open with AKxxx Kxxx xxx x,

I have no problem with opening that hand, but it seems clear to accept the transfer to clubs rather than bid 2♥. IMO, opener must be 55 in the majors. 56 is more likely than 54.

(Of course, once we are given all the hands, we're going to take exception to someone's choices.)

[Free]

This was the actual hand: http://online.bridgebase.com/cgi-bin/histo...etchlin=2039838

I bid 3♥ after very long thinking, but pass would probably be best. I don't know if my partner would bid after that since it was the first time we played together...

[inquiry]

Free, on Feb 18 2005, 08:58 AM, said:

This was the actual hand: http://online.bridgebase.com/cgi-bin/histo...etchlin=2039838

I bid 3♥ after very long thinking, but pass would probably be best.  I don't know if my partner would bid after that since it was the first time we played together...

Since the hand would not remain posted but for a couple of weeks, and since this thread will remain "forever:, I post the actual hand below for future readers of this thread

Scoring: IMP

West North East South

 1♠    Dbl   1NT!  Pass
 2♥    Pass  2♠    Pass
 Pass  Dbl   RDbl  3♥
 Dbl   Pass  Pass  Pass
 

---

[TimG]

I'm one of the two people who voted for 3♣, which appears to be a make. Of course, 2♠ likely goes down one (two if north can find a diamond underlead when in with a heart).

The redouble strikes me as odd. Did east really think 2♠ was making?

[inquiry]

TimG, on Feb 18 2005, 10:22 AM, said:

I'm one of the two people who voted for 3♣, which appears to be a make. Of course, 2♠ likely goes down one (two if north can find a diamond underlead when in with a heart).

The redouble strikes me as odd. Did east really thing 2♠ was making?

Every person playing this hand are regular contributes here (some like Free, nore regular than others). I don't understand the redouble either. But north hand is just about right for this auction, maybe fewer clubs might not be bad idea. Better hearts and would hit 2♥, weaker hand, and would pass 2♠, more red cards and void in spades, would try 2NT for takeout instead of double or cue-bid 2♠ to begin with.

[cherdano]

TimG, on Feb 18 2005, 02:22 PM, said:

I'm one of the two people who voted for 3♣, which appears to be a make.  Of course, 2♠ likely goes down one (two if north can find a diamond underlead when in with a heart).

Assuming a spade lead, doesn't West certainly lose at least 2 spades, 3 diamonds, and a heart against any defense? Btw, this is another example where a forcing defense doesn't work, because it allows W to score his low trumps for one down (if North shifts to ♣A after spade lead to the king, heart finesse losing to North).

Arend

[TimG]

cherdano, on Feb 18 2005, 09:36 AM, said:

TimG, on Feb 18 2005, 02:22 PM, said:

I'm one of the two people who voted for 3♣, which appears to be a make.  Of course, 2♠ likely goes down one (two if north can find a diamond underlead when in with a heart).

Assuming a spade lead, doesn't West certainly lose at least 2 spades, 3 diamonds, and a heart against any defense? Btw, this is another example where a forcing defense doesn't work, because it allows W to score his low trumps for one down (if North shifts to ♣A after spade lead to the king, heart finesse losing to North).

Arend

Yes, I think so. But, I also think it takes a diamond play from north at trick three (and a spade from south at trick 4 or 5) to set it 2 tricks. Maybe the diamond play is obvious, but I expect many norths would try to cash a high club (maybe thinking that south will discourage if he has the King of Diamonds).