[dickiegera]

---

2♦is game forcing

2NT shows 22-24 pts balanced.
3♥ is a transfer

What should 4♣ be?

Thank you

[helene_t]

Natural.

[Cyberyeti]

helene_t, on 2014-May-31, 15:39, said:

Natural.

Yes, I take it as natural in the first instance.

I won't however rule out that partner has spades, a club cue and a hand unsuitable for any other slam try. (did you have 4 level transfers available to show spades and what would they have meant ?)

[Zelandakh]

In England and America it is natural and I regard that as the standard meaning without discussion. In Germany (and I think France) it is commonly two-way, either natural or a cue. I like to play it (with agreement) as a second (third) round transfer showing diamonds. What it should be is the meaning that best fits the rest of your structure. With a pick up I would not recommend using anything except the first possibility.

[akwoo]

5+ spades, 4+ clubs, can imagine a 22 hcp hand opposite which slam is close to cold.

e.g. Kxxxx x xxx Kxxx

which should bid slam opposite

AQxx Axx KQ AQJx

[Cyberyeti]

akwoo, on 2014-May-31, 21:51, said:

5+ spades, 4+ clubs, can imagine a 22 hcp hand opposite which slam is close to cold.

e.g. Kxxxx x xxx Kxxx

which should bid slam opposite

AQxx Axx KQ AQJx

That hand shouldn't be bidding 3♠ over the transfer (should be breaking it), but AQx, Axx, KQx, AQJx plus a pointy suit J is pretty good.

[apollo1201]

Is 3♠ fitted (i.e. 3+ cards? In France, I used to play this fitted, in which situation, 4♣ comes as a 2-suited try for slam (i.e. opener should upgrade small ♣ honors and just tear off the red ones to be able to cooperate). Indeed, if I wanted to start cuebidding, I would bid 3NT, which cannot be for play since opener agreed a fit.

If we don't know whether 3♠ is fitted or not, I would tend to think 4♣ can be natural or kind of cue/try. Anyway, going past 3NT w/o any known fit supposes a non-minimal hand. With Kxxxx x Qxx xxxx I would just bid 3NT.

dICKIE, I hope this will help and you'll find it useful. Anyway, discuss it with your partner, as whatever you play, you need to be on the same wavelength!

[jdgalt]

Undiscussed, I assume that 4C is a control bid. It should not be a club suit; if responder has clubs he should bid 3C directly over 2C.

And 3S is merely the automatic acceptance of responder's transfer, and doesn't promise any spades (though 2NT implied at least 2). The partners haven't yet decided whether to play the hand in spades or NT, though if either partner now says 4NT I'd give key-card responses for spades.

[mycroft]

...but I bet partner thought it was Gerber...

[rmnka447]

mycroft, on 2014-June-02, 12:56, said:

...but I bet partner thought it was Gerber...

When I first saw the auction, I was thinking that this might be another Gerber or not problem, too.

A simple solution, from Matt Granovetter's book on conventions, is to use Texas Transfers. Then a Texas transfer followed by 4 NT is always RKCB or whatever your ace asking bid is. Using that artifice resolves a whole lot of possible confusion in other auctions.

Assuming something like that is in place, then the 4 ♣ bid is a cue versus suit problem.

Without any prior discussion, I would assume it's a suit. First, there may be other routes available to responder, likely via Stayman/Smolen, to set the major and provide room for cueing. Second, it would seem to be important for responder to be able to show two suiters in order to get to the right game/slam opposite a huge NT hand.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

#1 what would be the meaning of 4C, after a 2NT opening bid?
what would be the meaning of 3C, in the auction, after a 1 NT opening bid, in a similar auction?

#2 we play a 2H reponse as 0 - 0.5 tricks, a 2D response as 1-1.5 tricks (obviously game forcing),
and all other responses as 2+ tricks, creating an auction that cannot end below 4NT.
It helps and clarifies a lot to differentiate between a 1 trick game forcing response and a 2+
trick game forcing response.

#3 If you play 4C as natural, and assuming you can handle the workload, a 4H response to 4C should
set the club fit, all other bids over 4C should be cues for heart.
Alternatively the execution of the transfer should deny a heart fit.

You dont have a lot of room left, but you are in a game force, so make the bids more precise.
The last suggeston gets even played after a standard 2NT opener. if you have 20-21CP and a heart
fit, always ending up in 4H is not the end of the world.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: I dont play the suggestions of #3, but I think they make sense.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

#1 what would be the meaning of 4C, after a 2NT opening bid?
what would be the meaning of 3C, in the auction, after a 1 NT opening bid, in a similar auction?
Having a way to show 2-suiter is important, given that opener has more than half of the deck,
makes cues less important than showing shape.

#2 we play a 2H reponse as 0 - 0.5 tricks, a 2D response as 1-1.5 tricks (obviously game forcing),
and all other responses as 2+ tricks, creating an auction that cannot end below 4NT.
It helps and clarifies a lot to differentiate between a 1 trick game forcing response and a 2+
trick game forcing response.

#3 If you play 4C as natural, and assuming you can handle the workload, a 4H response to 4C should
set the club fit, all other bids over 4C should be cues for heart.

Alternatively the execution of the transfer should deny a heart fit.

You dont have a lot of room left, but you are in a game force, so make the bids more precise.
The last suggeston gets even played after a standard 2NT opener. if you have 20-21CP and a heart
fit, always ending up in 4H is not the end of the world.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: I dont play the suggestions of #3, but I think they make sense.

[whereagles]

I think it should be natural with a 5-4.

How to disentagle slam tries now is another story... I actually wrote some rules for it, but they are not very common.

[helene_t]

jdgalt, on 2014-June-01, 12:54, said:

Undiscussed, I assume that 4C is a control bid. It should not be a club suit; if responder has clubs he should bid 3C directly over 2C.

No. 3♣ directly shows a good six-card suit and certainly denies a 5-card major, probably even a 4-card major. Here you are showing 5-5 in the rounded suits, maybe 5-4. You might wonder why responder didn't bid 2♥ in response to 2♣ but maybe that bid meant something else or the heart suit isn't good enough.

If opener's 3♥ bid promises 3-card support, you might want to play 4♣ as a control. But as long as we are still looking for a fit, we need a way to show clubs.

[Trinidad]

mycroft, on 2014-June-02, 12:56, said:

...but I bet partner thought it was Gerber...

Gerber hadn't even occurred to me... This probably means that I get promoted from Expert to Advanced.

Rik