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To sumarize, partner opens strong 1♣, and then makes a slam try, you have underbid the previous round when you could have bid a 3♥ showing 8+. How are you going to catch up now?
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a lot of aces
#1
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Posted 2014-May-09, 15:01
To sumarize, partner opens strong 1♣, and then makes a slam try, you have underbid the previous round when you could have bid a 3♥ showing 8+. How are you going to catch up now?
#2
- Andy Bowles
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Posted 2014-May-09, 17:09
If 3♠ is really a slam try with hearts agreed, I'll Keycard my way to 6♥. We might have two spade losers, but it seems unlikely with the opponents bidding all the way to 4♠ at adverse (though I'd do the same at any vulnerability).
Is it really playable to use 3♠ as a slam try? What would he do if he wanted me to bid 3NT with a spade stop?
Is it really playable to use 3♠ as a slam try? What would he do if he wanted me to bid 3NT with a spade stop?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#3
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Posted 2014-May-09, 17:20
gnasher, on 2014-May-09, 17:09, said:
Is it really playable to use 3♠ as a slam try? What would he do if he wanted me to bid 3NT with a spade stop?
Pd bids 3 NT if he has stopper, no need to ask him immediately when the bidding is at 2 level only. N can dbl or bid his own suit at 3 level. So 3♠ is about hearts imo.
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#4
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Posted 2014-May-09, 17:52
I don't see why 3♠ is a slam try in hearts. I assume that we haven't forced to game, so what would 3m have been over 2♠? Sounds like it has to be non-forcing and could be on a 17 count with a 6 card club suit, for example.
Therefore, unless one wants to use the 4 level as a forcing bid, which sounds awful to me, 3♠ is a generic game force, asking partner to make the call that most combines perseveration of bidding space with description of hand. Thus 3N with a stopper is always going to the first choice.
However, I see that our system is, to my eyes, weird anyway: we had to bid 3♥!!! to show a natural game force over 1♠. Wow. I know that I would be stretching to interfere if by a simple 1♠ overcall I can have the opps willingly destroy 2 entire levels of bidding while exchanging virtually no limiting information.
If 3♠ DID agree hearts, then I have a huge hand. Can I infer a spade control? I don't think so, at least not sufficient certainty to keycard. I think I cue diamonds on general principles: I cue where I live for now. Over 5♠ I cue 6♣. If partner knows I don't cue shortness 1st, this should work out ok.
Therefore, unless one wants to use the 4 level as a forcing bid, which sounds awful to me, 3♠ is a generic game force, asking partner to make the call that most combines perseveration of bidding space with description of hand. Thus 3N with a stopper is always going to the first choice.
However, I see that our system is, to my eyes, weird anyway: we had to bid 3♥!!! to show a natural game force over 1♠. Wow. I know that I would be stretching to interfere if by a simple 1♠ overcall I can have the opps willingly destroy 2 entire levels of bidding while exchanging virtually no limiting information.
If 3♠ DID agree hearts, then I have a huge hand. Can I infer a spade control? I don't think so, at least not sufficient certainty to keycard. I think I cue diamonds on general principles: I cue where I live for now. Over 5♠ I cue 6♣. If partner knows I don't cue shortness 1st, this should work out ok.
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Posted 2014-May-10, 07:26
5c
P has invited slam opposite 5-7 and 5 hearts
and I am max + 1 heart have a side singleton
butttttttttttttttttt 2 stinking small spades.
5d looks like a normal bid (where I live) but
arbitrarily bypasses showing a club control which
could be costly same hand but KQx xx in minors.
4n takes charge with no spade control and seems
wishful.
P has invited slam opposite 5-7 and 5 hearts
and I am max + 1 heart have a side singleton
butttttttttttttttttt 2 stinking small spades.
5d looks like a normal bid (where I live) but
arbitrarily bypasses showing a club control which
could be costly same hand but KQx xx in minors.
4n takes charge with no spade control and seems
wishful.
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Posted 2014-May-10, 07:27
I'm going to pass and wait for pard to clarify what he's got.
Note: after the strong club is overcalled, it might be better that suit bids are the GF variant. Getting preempted on 25+ with no suits shown is annoying.
Note: after the strong club is overcalled, it might be better that suit bids are the GF variant. Getting preempted on 25+ with no suits shown is annoying.
#7
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Posted 2014-May-14, 00:59
Partner just had all keycards
♠Ax
♥AKJx
♦A10xx
♣A10x
diamonds 3-2 so the top contract is 7♦. Partner showed his trust in me when he bid 6♥ over my keycard ask
♠Ax
♥AKJx
♦A10xx
♣A10x
diamonds 3-2 so the top contract is 7♦. Partner showed his trust in me when he bid 6♥ over my keycard ask
#8
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Posted 2014-May-14, 04:49
If diamonds are 3-2 and they aren't getting a heart ruff we are getting 4♠ like 1100 here? Who bids like this?
I'd pass and pull x to 4N. Hard to see how I can have a better 2♥ call.
I'd pass and pull x to 4N. Hard to see how I can have a better 2♥ call.
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#9
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Posted 2014-May-14, 04:56
East had a diamodn Heart void
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Posted 2014-May-14, 06:05
Fluffy, on 2014-May-14, 00:59, said:
Partner just had all keycards
♠Ax
♥AKJx
♦A10xx
♣A10x
diamonds 3-2 so the top contract is 7♦. Partner showed his trust in me when he bid 6♥ over my keycard ask
♠Ax
♥AKJx
♦A10xx
♣A10x
diamonds 3-2 so the top contract is 7♦. Partner showed his trust in me when he bid 6♥ over my keycard ask
Fluffy, on 2014-May-14, 04:56, said:
East had a diamodn void
So which is it?
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Posted 2014-May-14, 06:52
ArtK78, on 2014-May-14, 06:05, said:
So which is it?
i expect fluffy just meant 7d only requires diamonds 3-2, hence it's the best, albeit failing, contract.
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Posted 2014-May-14, 06:55
Fluffy, on 2014-May-14, 04:56, said:
East had a diamodn void
So 6♥ goes off on the diamond ruff, prize for 6N at the result merchants' ball.
#13
- Csaba the Hutt
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Posted 2014-May-14, 07:00
Maybe East had a heart void instead?
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#14
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Posted 2014-May-14, 07:36
Csaba is right, East had a heart void.
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Posted 2014-May-22, 08:49
I can't figure out how to bid 7 on this. I guess we will stop at 6. Perhaps 6♦ after 5♦.
Without the Overcalls, north may reach 7♦ by precision trump asking finding out 6 card ♥ and side suit asking finding out ♦KQxx.
Without the Overcalls, north may reach 7♦ by precision trump asking finding out 6 card ♥ and side suit asking finding out ♦KQxx.
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