Would you pass Opening 1C or 1D?
#1
Posted 2005-January-31, 17:16
1) Would you pass an opening bid of 1C or 1D with a 5 card major and zero HCP if you were stiff or void in opening bid suit?
2) If so, what is the weakest hand with a 5 card major you would respond with?
#2
Posted 2005-January-31, 17:24
Jxxxx, Txxxx, x, xx
Jxxxx, QTxxx, x, xx
Jxxxx, ATxxx, x, xx
I realize these hands has a doubleton in pard's suit instead of a stiff, but the majority of the panel voted for only the last one being acceptable as a response. Personally, I think the last 2 are OK.
Playing 2/1, I'll find a bid with a 3 or 4 count, if I don't fit partner. I never pass a 6 count or a decent 5, unless I'm playing strong club, etc..
The world-class experts you mentioned in the other thread would also pass a "forcing" bid by partner if it improved the contract. Helgemo did this with Jimmy Cayne on a 5 count and played Q8xx opposite a stiff 7, when Cayne manufactured a reverse.
#3
Posted 2005-January-31, 17:50
#2 - 2D, probably
#3 - 2D
that's why that convention was made
#4
Posted 2005-January-31, 18:12
"There are no hands with a 5CM that I would pass in response to 1m, and most
3/4-counts are responses. As we play 1D-1NT=8-10, not 4M, 1D-1M may be 3 if
less than 8. How much less than 8 is in the eye of the beholder. As we're
now opening 2D with 18-20 BAL, we no longer have to worry about a BAL 2NT
rebid so there's more safety. And with 1m-1M; 2M either 15-17 BAL or shapely
it's pretty reasonable Not to pass. I might pass 1C or 1D with a 4333
2-count, would never pass 1M with support or shortness. Might respond 1S to
1H with a terrible hand, occ with only two spades, but normally four.
Obviously, never pass with an ace or an honor in partner's suit."
Food for thought.
Peter
#5
Posted 2005-January-31, 18:25
#6
Posted 2005-January-31, 18:38
#7
Posted 2005-February-01, 10:06
Combined with the modern trend toward light openings, something like 1D-1S becomes unplayable even in absence of competiton.
Even world class experts sometimes forget indirect costs. 1M over 1m on a 0 count with a five carder may well gain when it is used and opener is minimum, but it will lose when opener tries for or bids game assuming a 6 count--and if opener won't do this for fear of the 0 count, constuctive efficiency suffers horribly, which is a HUGE indirect cost. Also remember the opener will have 17 point (for example) more often when you have 0 than when you have 6.
FN do fine with forcing 1 bids, but they are ultra sound.
#8
Posted 2005-February-01, 10:12
I float out 2♥ with most partners with the third hand (I play RFR, showing weak hand, 5+♠ and 4+♥
With the second hand, I treat this as 4-5 in the majors, and bid only 1♥. Here is partner bids a "forcing" 1 make a clever pass of the forcing bid. I have to admit this pass where I respond on dirt (a hand the majority of players would not respond on) being happy to have found a fit have for the most part not turned out as well as I had hoped. But partner has always been understanding of why I choose to pass such a forcing bid.
Ben
#9
Posted 2005-February-01, 10:21
mike777, on Jan 31 2005, 06:16 PM, said:
1) Would you pass an opening bid of 1C or 1D with a 5 card major and zero HCP if you were stiff or void in opening bid suit?
2) If so, what is the weakest hand with a 5 card major you would respond with?
1) I'd pass and not be the least bit concerned.
2) An Ace would probably be enough. Not two Queens or a King and a Jack.
#10
Posted 2005-February-01, 13:33
inquiry, on Feb 1 2005, 11:12 AM, said:
I float out 2♥ with most partners with the third hand (I play RFR, showing weak hand, 5+♠ and 4+♥
With the second hand, I treat this as 4-5 in the majors, and bid only 1♥. Here is partner bids a "forcing" 1 make a clever pass of the forcing bid. I have to admit this pass where I respond on dirt (a hand the majority of players would not respond on) being happy to have found a fit have for the most part not turned out as well as I had hoped. But partner has always been understanding of why I choose to pass such a forcing bid.
Ben
Same for me, but I would also bid 2H with the third hand. This is an honest response in my book, I see no reason to sell this as anything but 5+ spades and 4+ hearts.
- hrothgar
#11 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-February-01, 14:45
#12
Posted 2005-February-01, 16:56
With good 5 HCP I would bid as everyone, with an Ace I could also make a move, pass with less than that.
#13
Posted 2005-February-01, 17:24
pclayton, on Jan 31 2005, 06:24 PM, said:
Jxxxx, Txxxx, x, xx
Jxxxx, QTxxx, x, xx
Jxxxx, ATxxx, x, xx
I realize these hands has a doubleton in pard's suit instead of a stiff, but the majority of the panel voted for only the last one being acceptable as a response. Personally, I think the last 2 are OK.
Playing 2/1, I'll find a bid with a 3 or 4 count, if I don't fit partner. I never pass a 6 count or a decent 5, unless I'm playing strong club, etc..
The world-class experts you mentioned in the other thread would also pass a "forcing" bid by partner if it improved the contract. Helgemo did this with Jimmy Cayne on a 5 count and played Q8xx opposite a stiff 7, when Cayne manufactured a reverse.
First hand, pass for sure.
For the second one, hard to say. Pass most of times. It may depends on the score, the situation of match and the mood.
There is no question on third hand, 1S response.
#14
Posted 2005-February-01, 17:46
Jlall, on Feb 1 2005, 02:45 PM, said:
sorry, i'd assumed reverse flannery was an optional convention, at least as far as 2/1 goes... that's why i'd bid 2D on all 3 hands