[eagles123]

---

2SX = wasn't a good result


How best to bid after the 2S overcall?

Thanks,

Eagles

[TylerE]

I would bid 3♠ as W over 2♠.

[MrAce]

Bidding 3♠ by W obviously an option and a very good option but it lacks the opportunity to punish them when opener has doubleton ♥ and 4 card spades. Notice that S did not get in at his first turn. He is trying to get in now thinking that auction will die at 2 level if he does not. Or may be he has solid spades and was trying to sit on 1 NT or planning to double 3 NT (walking the dog kinda) and he is annoyed that we are mentioning the hearts.

If i was W and did not remember our agreements on this DBL over 2♠, if we had any, then i would just take the insurance and bid 3♠. But if we had an agreement that the double is take out, then i would use it. Colors are very attractive for punishment if our opponent is just bored of passing and looking for action, and pd is aware that i am making a negative double.

[gszes]

Just use a lebensohld type system here and that solves all of your problems.
It is highly unlikely we want to be in NT unless we have 2 spade stops (and
then we would probably prefer to penalize the vul opps). That means the 2N
bid becomes idle since its natural meaning is probably rendered moot. That
means the x is penalty oriented. We do not want to try and cater to partner
having 4 spades under the spade length ---these anti positional x rarely
work very well.

With this hand merely bid 3n POFA that shows game going values and no
spade stopper and let partner decide how to proceed. That will allow you to
save a 3s bid as a self splinter for hearts which can help for slam bidding.
With one spade stop you can bid 2n followed by 3N to show 1 spade stop and
with 2 spade stops maybe just penalize the vul opps rather than worry about
which contract is best for your side (yes having AK tight can indeed work out
poorly so maybe bid 3n then instead of x:))))))))))))))))))))))

A bonus from bidding this way you can bid 2n followed by 3s to show a 0544
hand which should allow partner to make a choice of contracts with great precision.

[Zelandakh]

It seems like an even better spot for transfers. More than one scheme is possible, a simple example being:

2NT = clubs
3♣ = diamonds
3♦ = hearts, competitive or GF
3♥ = hearts, invite
3♠ = cog without spade stop
3NT = cog with spade stop

[helene_t]

East should take the double out if he has any doubt about what it means. Unless West is 4-5 in the majors, 3♥ is lawful, and with 4-5 West might have used Stayman instead of the transfer.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

opener caused the bad result as he passed the T/O with a fit,
he should bid 3H.
The T/O tells opener, that the opponents have a 9 card fit.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Zelandakh]

P_Marlowe, on 2014-February-18, 10:05, said:

opener caused the bad result as he passed the T/O with a fit,
he should bid 3H.

I don't think this was posted as an ATB. It seems clear that Responder thought double was takeout and Opener that it was penalty. The traditional meaning of ALL doubles after a natural NT bid was penalty so it would be harsh to criticise Opener without knowing the agreements in play.

[fromageGB]

It's also hard to criticise a penalty double, as well. You know they have at most a 9 card fit and no more than a 16 count. Do you really want to bid a competitive 3♥ on a 7 card fit when they may have only an 8 card fit?

[ArtK78]

I don't think it is hard to critcize THIS penalty double (assuming it was intended as a penalty double).

West knows that his side should be in game. He just doesn't know which game. So he should bid 3♠. If it turns out that 2♠x would have been better, c'est la vie.

If the double was intended as a take out double, then EW had better get their agreements straightened out. I would play it as a penalty double.

[Mbodell]

Unfavorable at MP when an opponent steps in but couldn't immediately it isn't unreasonable to try and get -1 for 200 when you weren't making game and -2 for 500 when you were. Even single dummy on average you'd expect usually 2 tricks in each non-spade suit. And 4♥ would be less than 50%.

[johnu]

eagles123, on 2014-February-17, 10:24, said:

2SX = wasn't a good result


How best to bid after the 2S overcall?

How would you ATB if there was a heart or club loser when you get to 4♥?

[fromageGB]

ArtK78, on 2014-February-18, 16:20, said:

West knows that his side should be in game.

A balanced 12 opposite a balanced 12, no more than an 8 card fit, and you KNOW you should be in a matchpoint game? You play a different game to me.

On this hand it seems that as South did not bid immediately, the hearts are not breaking well. It may be hard to avoid a loser in all 4 suits as well as a second spade.

[ArtK78]

All I can do is quote Bobby Goldman when speaking with a client after some -670 or -730 when she explained that she doubled because she had 13 points. "With points you bid; with trumps you double."

[helene_t]

ArtK78, on 2014-February-19, 06:02, said:

"With points you bid; with trumps you double."

If it is a situation in which double is unilateral penalty. If this double is optional or t/o then double is fine.

[phil_20686]

Its pretty much unplayable to play this double as penalties. When the opps get into trouble, it is obviously the WK NT guy who is massive favourite to hold the trump stack. But he cannot double on his own as he doesnt know if his partner has points, since he has only transferred. PLaying the dble as t/o or points is much better, as now it is always the case that opener knows his partner has points and can pass with a trump stack. It also gives responder something much better to do than pass when he has some 2533 or 1543 10 count and doesnt know if he should be competing because he doenst know how to get to their presumed club/diamond fit.