[VJ]

Puzzling to me that strong club is authorized whilst forcing pass is about always forbidden everywhere.  Fine that is should be reserved to competition, but it is merely a logical extension of strong club.  acbl seems very frigid to me.  Protect and encourage newcomers: perfect!  be very strict about ethics: excellent!  but let's be open...

[inquiry]

I had to give up ROMEX so many years ago I hate to think about it (70's). The ACBL-sanctioned club I played at allowed it (it was an anything goes, even forcing pass). But when playing in sectionals and regionals it was disallowed. So I even stopped playing it at the local club. Why? Because after fine tuning the weapon in "practice" at the local club, I couldn't use it at tournments and I ended up in auctions at tournments I hadn't practiced.

I have always been for let anything in approach. However, as I have aged, I have come to at least appreciate the need for not letting complicated and unknown conventions be thrown at people in a highly competitive situations. People who never have heard of multi-2D for instance, may feel cheated almost the first time they run into the bid if they didn't appreciate all the possible hands opener could hold, etc. What makes playing these things acceptible is familarity. We are all familar with two suited bids (michaels, unusual 2NT), so we have all adopted ways to deal with them (say unusual versus unusual). If more conventions/systems were allowed and some people played them so people could be familiar to playing against them, then these too would be demystified. After playing against multi-2D for a while on-line, I have adopted it, for instance.  

[csdenmark]

I like to see some interested to play strong pass systems. On BBO we are a few enjoying the 2 polish systems Lambda and Beznazwy(No Name). We have much fun doing so and try to encourage others. VJ and Inquiry are welcome too of course.

The systems can be carried out simple as we do but are  created as relay systems. They are both very simple systems you will be able to handle very quick.

http://groups.msn.co...LES/lambda.msnw

http://groups.msn.co...S/beznazwy.msnw

Hope soon to meet you as partner or opponent!

Claus - csdenmark  

[the hog]

I agree that this is a shame. We can play it in 14 board matches, provided that it is submitted in advance and provided that you are playing a team in the top 1/3 of the field. Unfortunately even these allowances mean that you don't get to play a FP system often enough to make it worthwhile. Opponent's reactions differed; some like Claus thought it was a lot of fun, others were openly hostile. One of the most fun matches we had was when we played another forcing pass team - auctions at the table did not resemble anything that you are ever likely to see.

The systems Claus mentions have been around for quite a while. Definitely also worth a look are Suspensor - a modern version of No Name, T-Rex which is a New Zealand medium pass system, and my all time old favourite - Weak Opening Relay which is the original Marston - Burgess strong pass system. Maybe we can organise a game sometime; I am certain Richard would welcome the opportunity

[inquiry]

Quote

I like to see some interested to play strong pass systems. On BBO we are a few enjoying the 2 polish systems Lambda and Beznazwy(No Name). We have much fun doing so and try to encourage others. VJ and Inquiry are welcome too of course.

The systems can be carried out simple as we do but are  created as relay systems. They are both very simple systems you will be able to handle very quick.

http://groups.msn.co...LES/lambda.msnw

http://groups.msn.co...S/beznazwy.msnw

Hope soon to meet you as partner or opponent!

Claus - csdenmark  

Thanks for the invite Claus. I would indeed like to play around with forcing pass system...against opponents willing to play against it of course. And I certainly am really to play against anyone playing it. I will have to go read about llamda, but I may be to old to learn the relay version...

Ben

[VJ]

Thanks for the invitation too, Claus.  I designed my own out of the Indian Veejay relay precision club, but I am interested in learning and probably playing those Polish systems.  I am on my way to Moldavia right now for 10 days, but I will look into this on my return.  Keep in touch.

By the way Ben, we are never too old: bridge is making you younger  

John

[VJ]

Claus,
I had a brief look at Lambda and Beznazwy.
1.1. I found the openings interesting but with it seems to me obvious improvements to be easily added.
1.2. I also did not find what to do with a balanced hand 8-12 and 2-3 in majors, unless that is covered by 1C???
2. to invest in the system, you need a thorough description (in English).  Is that available?
3. At first look, my forcing pass VJ system is much better, but I am ready to make sacrifices to gain commonality

Thanks for your contribution,

John

[Rado]

Hi friends,
Just include me in the list when organising the play with forsing pass at the table. Lambda, Beznazwy and Rozkladowy were my favourites in the years 1985-1989.:-)
Rado

[csdenmark]

Hi John(VJ)

I would really enjoy to be able to answer your question. Sorry I am not in a position to do so. Rado is my very honoured Delphi for such!

I can tell you a bit of how we play the simple version om Lambda:

1C-open: Semi-balanced, 8-12. This means all hands not qualifying for any other openings and has no single/void.

This is a bit different in Beznazwy due to the fact openings of majors 1H/1S is <3cd or 6+cd. In reality this often means you are holding an opening hand in other Major.

I think you know quite well how difficult it is to obtain information of these type of systems and due to ban of such new literature is not published. I have tried to find books but the only one I have, and it is in english, is: "Introduction to weak opening systems - Regres system". I bought it by Paul Laving in Australia. As I remember it was the last copy on stock, maybe you will be able to find something by Futile Will who is specialized in out of print books.

I have asked Hrotgar(Richard Willey) about Moscito's pass-version, the origin by Paul Marston. He was unable to help.

I am only a user much enjoying the fun. I try play those 2 systems acc. to the descriptions you have seen. Rest is guessing and natural bidding. - Makes no problem at all. I think this is for everyone to participate and that's important to me. I have asked Misho to help me creating a relay structure and in the near future I think and hope a simple solution for that will turn up as an option. There is a relay - next bid is always a relay for clarification. The openings which needs to be clarified are of course forcing.

If you want a well defined relay-pass-system, Regres is the solution I think. I think it is much too complicated for a rarely played system but I have 2 names for you as partners for that system.

It is a problem on internet you cannot translate the polish sites via Alta Vista. Here is a link to a site where you will be able to translate phrases of polish text into english: http://www.poltran.com/pl.php4 .

I hope very much this was a help - please remember it is not me who is the resource person.

Yours Claus - csdenmark  
 

[Rado]

Hi John (BJ),

with 2-3 in majors the correct opening is:

in lambda: 1Cl
in Beznazwy: 1 in shorter Major, since there 1M opening shows 0-2 or 6+ cards in the Major bid.
in Rozkladowy : 1Cl

I've found somewhere (unfortunately cannot remmeber the internet site) one pdf file with brief descriptions of 20 different forsing pass systems from all over the world. If somebody is interested I may send the PDF file (which fortunately saved on my PC LOL) by e-mail.
best regards, Rado

[csdenmark]

The above mentioned file by Rado has now been uploaded here:    

http://groups.msn.com/bridgeFILES/Document...forcingpass.pdf

Some may have problems accessing the uploaded files. You overcome this problem by changing language into "english US" here: http://groups.msn.co...gelanguage.msnw.

The explanation is you are redirected to a Microsoft Server specifically directed for your country. If access is denied for you most probably you need to sign in to NET-passport using this link: http://groups.msn.com/bridgeFILES/join
 


I am looking for partners: http://groups.msn.co...geFILES/cs.msnw

Yours Claus - csdenmark    

[DrTodd13]

I play pretty much standard Tresboof forcing pass system with a couple people on OKB and BBO. I also play a modified Tresboof with symmetric relays with my lunch time partner and we periodically play on okb and BBO. Anybody wanting to learn our system send me e-mail and we'll play on BBO.

Todd

[luis]

Of course you can count me in to play a forcing pass system or to play against a forcing pass system.
I find forcing pass systems nice, effective and inofensive to the opps. I know they are banned just because it is against the "industry" of SAYC.
I can play Regres, Lambda or another system if I can read the notes.
I also like to play special defenses agains forcing pass systems, creating very curious situations at the table.
Like the "pass" overcall and the fert-on-pass and many other interesting treatments. A lot of fun....

Luis

[the hog]

I also like to play special defenses agains forcing pass systems, creating very curious situations at the table.
Like the "pass" overcall and the fert-on-pass and many other interesting treatments. A lot of fun....

One fairly common method here was the "counterfert". 1NT over the fert showed 0-10 any

[mishovnbg]

Count me for Lambda, i played it at national team finals 15 years ago :
Misho

[csdenmark]

Nice to read about all those to count for play of forcing pass-systems. Really none of the honoured contrebutors here have ever responded to my excessive adverticing. - Others occasionally do so - but none of those who are informing they enjoy playing such systems responds to me and I am never informed of they are playing such and I have never seen.

Yours Claus -csdenmark

[bearmum]

I guess FP systems are OK IF (and ONLY IF) the opps have had a chance as a pair to discuss HOW to deal with them :-
I agree that two pairs playing FP would have some interesting auctions though ;D

Quote

I agree that this is a shame. We can play it in 14 board matches, provided that it is submitted in advance and provided that you are playing a team in the top 1/3 of the field. Unfortunately even these allowances mean that you don't get to play a FP system often enough to make it worthwhile. Opponent's reactions differed; some like Claus thought it was a lot of fun, others were openly hostile. One of the most fun matches we had was when we played another forcing pass team - auctions at the table did not resemble anything that you are ever likely to see.

The systems Claus mentions have been around for quite a while. Definitely also worth a look are Suspensor - a modern version of No Name, T-Rex which is a New Zealand medium pass system, and my all time old favourite - Weak Opening Relay which is the original Marston - Burgess strong pass system. Maybe we can organise a game sometime; I am certain Richard would welcome the opportunity

[luis]

Quote

Nice to read about all those to count for play of forcing pass-systems. Really none of the honoured contrebutors here have ever responded to my excessive adverticing. - Others occasionally do so - but none of those who are informing they enjoy playing such systems responds to me and I am never informed of they are playing such and I have never seen.

Claus,

I think you can't just "agree" to play Lambda with somebody and pretend to do it without a good previous talk and many agreements and understandings.
Two players playing the same system doesn't make a partnership.

[csdenmark]

No luis - completely wrong!

I have no problems playing for the first time with anybody! Some like to play that as standard classic - I don't.

Yours Claus - csdenmark

[DrTodd13]

I was eager to learn a forcing pass system and one of the only reasons
I learned Tresboof was that it had a reasonably complete set of
system notes. I have some files describing the opening bids for
lambda, regress, etc. but you can't sit down and play based on that
level of understanding.

If it were up to me, I'd legalize FP and if people started to get bad
results against it then they would learn how to defend against it.
If FP turns out to be superior but little old ladies won't stray from
natural bidding then the LOLs will just have to lose. I know clubs
don't want to lose membership so I think that there needs to be
a dumbed down social section (with reduced masterpoint awards)
and an anything goes section.