[patroclo]

What the best sequence of bid

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South dealer
Thanks for reply

[Cyberyeti]

(P-P-)-1♦-1♥-1♠-3♦-3N

or if E overcalls:

P-P-1♦-1♠-2♥-P-2N-P-3♦-P- then either 3♥-P-4♥ or 3N

[BillPatch]

I like:
s w n e
p p 1nt p
2♦p 2♥ p
3nt ppp

E will lead 10 of ♠, standard leads. Even at World champ level Jack will not find the double dummy play of the q♣ return that would set contract 2 tricks. expected single dummy result +460 nvul game 3nt N.

[PhilKing]

BillPatch, on 2013-November-16, 05:30, said:

I like:
s w n e
p p 1nt p
2♦p 2♥ p
3nt ppp

E will lead 10 of ♠, standard leads. Even at World champ level Jack will not find the double dummy play of the q♣ return that would set contract 2 tricks. expected single dummy result +460 nvul game 3nt N.

I gave this as a defensive problem to Jack5 on max setting and it switched to the ♣Q if you play low from dummy, but continues spades if you play the jack. Psychology is not Jack's longest suit.

If you click "analyse position", the results were close either way. FWIW, I think a club switch is entirely reasonable, and surely correct if declarer plays an "encouraging" jack.

[the hog]

I also think a C switch is entirely reasonable on this hand.
The bidding? 1NT 2D 2H 3NT

[lowerline]

Assuming no intervention by EW:

p-1♦
1♥-1♠
2♦-3♦
3♥-4♥
p

[RSClyde]

When you don't open hands like north 1nt you have to jump through hoops to get your values on the table. If north (with 2 doubleton kings to protect) does choose to open 1♦ drawing a 1♥ response which is followed by 1♠, south should bid nothing other than 1nt at this point.

[Cyberyeti]

RSClyde, on 2013-November-18, 07:46, said:

When you don't open hands like north 1nt you have to jump through hoops to get your values on the table. If north (with 2 doubleton kings to protect) does choose to open 1♦ drawing a 1♥ response which is followed by 1♠, south should bid nothing other than 1nt at this point.

This may be true if you play US style systems, in Acol, 1♦-1♥-1♠ shows 5♦ unless exactly 4144 so bidding diamonds is normal.

[fromageGB]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-November-18, 08:19, said:

..in Acol, 1♦-1♥-1♠ shows 5♦ unless exactly 4144 so bidding diamonds is normal.

You have a 9 count, partner has a 12 count, you have 3 diamonds in support and jump to the 3-level - and he may have only 4 diamonds? I never did understand Acol.

[Zelandakh]

1♦ = up to 17, 4+ diamonds, unbal
... - 1NT = less than invite, 4+ hearts, 0-3 spades
2♠ = natural reverse, 16-17
... - 2NT = to play clubs or exactly 5 hearts
3♣
... - 3♦ = 5 hearts, 3+ diamonds, GF
3♠ = denies 3 hearts and effectively asks for club help
... - 4♥ = good hearts, cog

In Acol, I think Cyberyeti is right to go back to diamonds rather than rebid 1NT but I see no reason to jump. So 1♦ - 1♥; 1♠ - 2♦; 2NT - 3NT seems right. I think the main thing on this hand is not what Responder does but rather whether Opener treats the hand as balanced or unbalanced. Treating the hand as balanced does not work so well in English Acol since it is nomal to open the major in 4M4m32 hands. Is better in, for example, Swiss Acol. Then 1♦ - 1♥; 1NT - 2♣; 2♠ - 3♣; 3♦ - 3♥; 3NT perhaps. Is all a bit nebulous for me but most likely that is unfamiliarity with the style.

Playing SA or the like, I think the practical choice is very much to treat the hand as balanced and start with 1NT. Then Bill's auction looks obvious. Treating North as balanced in my system results in a similar auction but delayed for a round, viz:

1♣ = 15+ nat/bal or 18+ any
... - 2♦ = bal or 3-suited with 4-5 hearts and 0-3 spades
2NT = 15-17 bal
... - 3♦ = 5 hearts
3♥
... - 3NT = cog

The original auction is probably better though (despite the awkward wrong-siding) since you get a lot less benefit from treating a hand like this as balanced when starting with a atrong artificial 1♣, especially when also playing an unbalanced diamond.

[Cyberyeti]

Zelandakh, on 2013-November-20, 08:31, said:

In Acol, I think Cyberyeti is right to go back to diamonds rather than rebid 1NT but I see no reason to jump. So 1♦ - 1♥; 1♠ - 2♦; 2NT - 3NT seems right. I think the main thing on this hand is not what Responder does but rather whether Opener treats the hand as balanced or unbalanced. Treating the hand as balanced does not work so well in English Acol since it is nomal to open the major in 4M4m32 hands. Is better in, for example, Swiss Acol. Then 1♦ - 1♥; 1NT - 2♣; 2♠ - 3♣; 3♦ - 3♥; 3NT perhaps. Is all a bit nebulous for me but most likely that is unfamiliarity with the style.

We bid 3♦ on this type of hand so partner doesn't have to bid on with the N hand over 2♦. It's a choice you make, but if I'm going to be in 3♦ on a combined 21 count, I'd rather be in it with 12/9 than 16/5. We actually (unusually) open the minor with 4M4m32, but I don't see why I should say I'm 4-4 when I can say I'm 5-4. I feel there is a difference in philosophy in many forms of Acol with several other systems where Acol usually treats 5422 as unbalanced.

[mike777]

p=1nt
2d=2h
3nt=p

should go down on a spade lead and club switch. oh well. put the defense to the test.