[1eyedjack]

MP, robot tourney, best hand South

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In a nutshell, if 4N is right, then 3♥ is wrong.

I think that the description of 3♥ is wrong anyway, regardless of whether it is the right bid for the hand. The description imposes no narrower limit on strength than the original overcall, but I think that if North has a maximum overcall with a fit then he should not risk being passed out in a partscore.

The 4♥ bid by me may be an underbid given that the range of 3♥ from North. But whatever the desciription of 3♥ I had placed him with a non-max. Possibly might raise on just doubleton trump also.

But given that 4♥ is the weakest bid that I could have made over 3♥ other than pass, and that I had several slam try bids available below game, I personally would have passed 4♥ with the North hand. Tip of the hat to North, for all that, although it did need a slightly favourable break or two.

[georgi]

Auction like this ( 1X - 2Y preemptive overall 1minor - 2Major or 1♣ - 2♦ ) and bidding proceeds like this is an opening.

So responder cannot bid anything then 3major raise with fit.

That is same like:

2♦ - 2♥ ( what's not visible is that is forcing to 3♦, without fit of course )
3♥

[Bbradley62]

Georgi: Are you saying that there is no such auction as:
(1♣)-2♦-(P)-2♥-(P)-4♥?
I agree with Jack that this should show a maximum 2♦ bid with heart support, and therefore a rebid of 3♥ by North should deny such a hand.

[georgi]

Bbradley62, on 2013-October-26, 17:38, said:

Georgi: Are you saying that there is no such auction as:
(1♣)-2♦-(P)-2♥-(P)-4♥?
I agree with Jack that this should show a maximum 2♦ bid with heart support, and therefore a rebid of 3♥ by North should deny such a hand.

I am saying it ignores 1♣ and it behaves like it will after opening 2♦.

But in opening 2♦ it's possible opener to reply with

3M - with fit
4♣ like here ( now because of the openening, but with 11TP max and 1-♣, like splinter )
4M with 3+ cards and 11TP max

As here it has 10TP, bid is just 3♥, but after simulation ( for advanced GIB ) it could find the other two bids than 3M only.

2♥ it's not passable call. You unlikely will correct preemptive overcall with your overcall.

[1eyedjack]

I always thought that 2♥ is forcing, as you have confirmed. That was never an issue for me.

That still does not mean if South bids 2♥ then he must have a hand where 5♥ is safe opposite a maximum North.

Which is effectively what you are saying, if North has to show that hand by giving a simple raise followed by Blackwood. That is madness.

GIB should at least acknowledge that South has other bids than 4♥ available with slam interest and that therefore 4♥ denies such interest. North's overcall is limited. A weak 2 has a broader range than many limit bids but it is still limited.

As I understand your response, North has 4♥ available as an option with 11TP but that he had to bid 3♥ on this hand because he had only 10TP. What you appear to be saying is that North was not even maximum in context for the overcall, and yet still proceeds to 5??

Presumably South is permitted to pass an 11TP 4♥ raise, so we are left with the absurd situation that we can play in 4♥ opposite 11TP but have to play in 5♥ opposite 10.

Personally I would have rated North's hand in this case to be maximum in context and I would not have distinguished it from an 11TP hand, but lumped them both together in the 4♥ raise.

[Bbradley62]

1eyedjack, on 2013-October-27, 00:56, said:

Personally I would have rated North's hand in this case to be maximum in context and I would not have distinguished it from an 11TP hand, but lumped them both together in the 4♥ raise.

Me too!

[1eyedjack]

Actually I note from what Georgi says that 4♣ (over 2♥) would have been a splinter, and only not chosen on this hand for want of a total point. I am undecided about the merits of that on this hand where the values are so heavily concentrated in Diamonds. I think that 4♦ should show a Heart fit and particularly strong diamonds, which I think is probably a better bid if that is what it means.

Not really fussed whether it bids 4♣, 4♦ or 4♥ over 2♥. All that I ask is that it does not unilaterally commit to 5♥ unless and until it hears some slam interest from South.