[Fluffy]

♠4
♥AQ10
♦K
♣KQ986432

all vul, MPs.


pass-(pass)-1♣-(1♦)
1 ♥ - ( 2 ♦ )-??


What would you do now? agree with the opening?

[mgoetze]

Why wouldn't I agree with the opening? And now I'll double, why shouldn't I?

[PhilKing]

Where are the spades? It feels as though pard must be 4-5 in the majors - either that or the opponents have missed a 9-card fit. I think this dummy won't be much use in hearts, so I will start by repeating clubs. In my system, that means 2NT, which shows at least a good 3♣ bid, and I will follow with 3♥. Opposite:

♠Kxxx
♥KJxxx
♦Jxx
♣J

Partner should sniff out that we belong in clubs, and if his ♠K is the ace, I expect to reach game. Even if pard is 4540, I think we belong in clubs.

(I know some people would double 1♦ with that, but not I)

[Cyberyeti]

mgoetze, on 2013-August-31, 08:04, said:

Why wouldn't I agree with the opening? And now I'll double, why shouldn't I?

Opener is fine. Does 1♥ guarantee 5 ?

What do you call an 8 card suit ... trumps, this figures to play better in clubs than hearts an awful lot of the time, is partner supposed to work out that Axx, Kxxxx, xxx, Jx is an easy 5♣ but 4♥ is reasonably often off. Can I get back into clubs after a support double when it's right ? probably depends how many diamonds they bid.

[jdeegan]

The opening bid is, imo, a 'no brainer'. Why preempt with 14 HCP? I do have some reservations about going passive with a support double holding (what was that again?) 3-8. Mastermind (or is it Mindermast?) has entered the building. Opponents are never going to believe my hand. Neither is partner, but he/she is outnumbered 2 to 1. My hand has only four losers opposite four hearts to the jack, and everyone else thinks it is just another Wednesday. I have 'le bombe suprise'.

What to do? What to do? Should I bid just 3♣, or maybe 4♣? Do I need to hear a bit more before placing the contract? I don't see why not. The spade suit is missing. Maybe the support double isn't such a bad idea? Double it is. O.K. I am with you now. I just hope partner can take a joke.

[helene_t]

I am certainly going to bid some number of clubs. At least four.

[Cyberyeti]

helene_t, on 2013-September-01, 00:32, said:

I am certainly going to bid some number of clubs. At least four.

Am I alone in feeling 4♣ shows hearts as well ? my worry about it is that it shows 4.

[jdeegan]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-September-01, 04:53, said:

Am I alone in feeling 4♣ shows hearts as well ? my worry about it is that it shows 4.

I am with you there. Absent the interference it absolutely should show something like 6-4 with a semi-solid six bagger and 4♥ to at least one honor. The 2♦ overcall does open up 3♦ as a game force. Still, 4♣ is too ambiguous. Forget 4♣. I am getting whittled down to the two sneaky options - double and 3♣. Double is looking better since, at least, I don't have to worry it will be passed out.

[PhilKing]

jdeegan, on 2013-September-01, 05:37, said:

Double is looking better since, at least, I don't have to worry it will be passed out.

Is that because you naturally are not a worrier?

[jdeegan]

PhilKing, on 2013-September-01, 05:48, said:

Is that because you naturally are not a worrier?

Faint heart ne'er won fair maid.

[wanoff]

PhilKing, on 2013-August-31, 08:30, said:

Where are the spades? It feels as though pard must be 4-5 in the majors - either that or the opponents have missed a 9-card fit. I think this dummy won't be much use in hearts, so I will start by repeating clubs. In my system, that means 2NT, which shows at least a good 3♣ bid, and I will follow with 3♥. Opposite:

♠Kxxx
♥KJxxx
♦Jxx
♣J

Partner should sniff out that we belong in clubs, and if his ♠K is the ace, I expect to reach game. Even if pard is 4540, I think we belong in clubs.

(I know some people would double 1♦ with that, but not I)

He'll only know we have 8 clubs with X-ray vision.
fwiw in my version 2NT shows clubs - competing and then you could show hearts.

[PhilKing]

wanoff, on 2013-September-01, 06:18, said:

He'll only know we have 8 clubs with X-ray vision.
fwiw in my version 2NT shows clubs - competing and then you could show hearts.

He will know we had so many clubs that we chose to show clubs then three hearts rather than vice versa. Unless you are just doing it for a laugh, that should mean you have a lop-sided hand.

"Good" 2NT is superior to "bad", since you get more definition on your good hands (as here, but also because you can use it to show good and GF, leaving a cue to show a game forcing trump raise).

[PhilKing]

wanoff, on 2013-September-01, 06:18, said:

He'll only know we have 8 clubs with X-ray vision.
fwiw in my version 2NT shows clubs - competing and then you could show hearts.

He will know we had so many clubs that we chose to show clubs then three hearts rather than vice versa. Unless you are just doing it for a laugh, that should mean you have a lop-sided hand. 2NT then 3♥ is logically forcing to 4♣ so I have to have something like this.

"Good" 2NT is superior to "bad", since you get more definition on your good hands (as here, but also because you get "good" and "GF", leaving a cue to show a game forcing trump raise).

[mcphee]

A leap to 4C for me would show 4 card H and better clubs. The auction to this point suggests to me spades may well be 4-4-4-1 and quite possible partner holds 6H, he did bid freely and did not open a weak 2 bid (shitty trumps vul and spade length)and the no negative double an inference partner prefers to stress H. While this is a bit up in the air and not under written with State Farm it does point to indicating my 3 trumps now and bidding clubs again later. Three card support might be all partner wants to know.

[nige1]

Fluffy, on 2013-August-31, 07:01, said:

all vul, MPs. ♠ 4 ♥ A Q 10 ♦ K ♣ K Q 9 8 6 4 3 2
pass-(pass)-1♣-(1♦); 1 ♥ - ( 2 ♦ )-??
What would you do now? agree with the opening?

PhilKing, on 2013-August-31, 08:30, said:

Where are the spades? It feels as though pard must be 4-5 in the majors - either that or the opponents have missed a 9-card fit. I think this dummy won't be much use in hearts, so I will start by repeating clubs. In my system, that means 2NT, which shows at least a good 3♣ bid, and I will follow with 3♥. Opposite: ♠ K x x x ♥ K J x x x ♦ J x x ♣ J
Partner should sniff out that we belong in clubs, and if his ♠K is the ace, I expect to reach game. Even if pard is 4540, I think we belong in clubs. (I know some people would double 1♦ with that, but not I)

Cyberyeti, on 2013-September-01, 04:53, said:

Am I alone in feeling 4♣ shows hearts as well ? my worry about it is that it shows 4.

jdeegan, on 2013-September-01, 05:37, said:

Double is looking better since, at least, I don't have to worry it will be passed out.

PhilKing, on 2013-September-01, 06:32, said:

"Good" 2NT is superior to "bad", since you get more definition on your good hands (as here, but also because you get "good" and "GF", leaving a cue to show a game forcing trump raise).

IMO 2N (PhiKing's version) = 11, 3♣ = 10, 4♣ = 9, Double = 8, 2♠ = 7,
Agree with Fluffy's 1♣ opener and I think that PhilKing's posts are germane.

• In spite of JDeegan's assurances, there is a danger that partner will pass your double of 2♦ because he's probably short in ♣.
• Partner is also likely to hold ♠ or -- even worse, opponents may have a massive ♠ fit (made more likely by partner's failure to double 1♦)
• ♣ contracts are likely to play better than ♥ contracts.
• Cyberyeti is right that a jump to 4♣ should show 4 ♥ and good ♣.
• If you play good-bad 2N here, then PhilKing has persuaded me that 2N should be the stronger. Does that mean "reverse Lebensohl" is also an improvement?

[Fluffy]

if you double it will go 3♦-3♥-pass

[mike777]

4c over 2d whatever that means.

option2=5c give up on slam.