[paulg]

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IMPs.

3♥ shows some values as this is a Lebensohl situation for you.

You lose 12 IMPs on the board when team mates go for -1100. Assign the blame (of which I suspect there is much).

[ahydra]

I blame team-mates! Getting to 6D is difficult after the 2S interference, since West doesn't really want to risk 4D in case partner doesn't have any diamonds (unless, perhaps, you have good understandings that will allow you to stop in 4NT).

We had our own disaster on this one, (1S)-X-(p)-2H; 2S-4D; 4NT-5D; 6NT, off two. Holding the West hand, I simply couldn't believe partner had real diamonds for his 4D bid! Serves me right - always trust partner... :/

ahydra

[ewj]

Tough...I might have expected a few more values for 3♥ given partner could bid 2NT. Is partner 'marked' with a stiff spade? Didn't open a weak two? So presumably is 15(34) or 15(52)? Still....6♣ could just be no play if the heart values are less suitable. And even with the heart ace...Could try 4♦ I guess...if partner has something like x KQxxx xx Qxxxx, we're not in great shape but then 3NT looks like a struggle anyway, so maybe it's worth a go...

[ewj]

I guess if partner had bid 2NT you would have been laughing all the way to the bank...given 2NT shows 'something', it feels like 3D would be forcing, then splinter etc

[mcphee]

Although E is a little short in values he does have plenty of shape and acting over 2S is sensible. Double shows 2 places to play and the hand qualifies for that action. I can appreciate the desire to bid H expecting to be defending 4S but prefer dble. Should E do so it is impossible to prevent W from reaching a D slam imo.

[Fluffy]

I think East should bid 4♥, it doesn't help the cause. Congrats to NS for theirs psyches.

[RSClyde]

Fluffy, on 2013-August-20, 09:09, said:

I think East should bid 4♥, it doesn't help the cause. Congrats to NS for theirs psyches.

If he's pulling anyway why not 4♦?

[rogerclee]

Strongly dislike west's 3N bid, east was normal to me.

[paulg]

Fluffy, on 2013-August-20, 09:09, said:

I think East should bid 4♥, it doesn't help the cause. Congrats to NS for theirs psyches.

South had a 5422 ten count and North a 3-card raise albeit with a singleton diamond. The fact that they were light actions meant that they were quite popular and few bid the slams (+430 was -2.5 IMPs on the field).

[RSClyde]

rogerclee, on 2013-August-20, 09:22, said:

Strongly dislike west's 3N bid, east was normal to me.

What else is he supposed to do? He has a singleton heart and tricks coming out of his ears. Give partner the more likely 5 clubs and 2 diamonds and 3nt is the limit.

[rogerclee]

RSClyde, on 2013-August-20, 10:11, said:

What else is he supposed to do?

Bidding the long suit where our side might make a slam seems like a good start to me.

[Fluffy]

RSClyde, on 2013-August-20, 09:19, said:

If he's pulling anyway why not 4♦?

I meant the round before

[wank]

the bidding was the same at our table as far as 3h. then it went 4d, 4s, 6d. as i held the west hand, i'd blame west then.

(we were playing weak opps so i didn't try to find 7)

[paulg]

Team mates were very good about the -1100, perhaps because they play very similar methods and might only have escaped for -800 if they'd been NS.

[gnasher]

I agree with 3♥. Although I'd want to be in game opposite a normal minimum takeout double, the singleton spade and the opponents' quiet auction make it likely that partner has some strong off-shape hand. 3♥ simply isn't going to be passed out: either partner or LHO will bid again. Partner's action (or inaction) on the next round will tell me which type of takeout double he has.

After 3♥, I think West should bid 4♦. Partner has chosen his stronger way of bidding 3♥, so I can expect more than just ♥KJxxx. Opposite a 1534 shape 5♦ is likely to make, and 6♦ would be cold opposite x Axxxx xxx Kxxx.

After the auction to 3NT, I don't think East should do any more. If we'd had the uncontested sequence 2NT-3♦;3♥-3NT, East would pass without thought. I don't see much difference.

[RSClyde]

rogerclee, on 2013-August-20, 10:19, said:

Bidding the long suit where our side might make a slam seems like a good start to me.

So clearly 4♦ is forcing. Right?
And when partner bids 4H now I can either divine to pass or bid 4nt and our agreement is that this is to play right?
And partner's free 3H isn't predicated on the idea that I likely have a fit (something like the same kind of hand he has with 5 clubs instead of diamonds) where 9 no trump tricks is as good as it gets.

[gnasher]

RSClyde, on 2013-August-21, 15:11, said:

So clearly 4♦ is forcing. Right?

Yes. On what sort of hand would we want to bid a non-forcing 4♦?

Quote

And when partner bids 4H now I can either divine to pass or bid 4nt and our agreement is that this is to play right?

4♥ is to play, and 4NT by either hand would be to play. Getting to the right game takes priority over slam investigations. Note that Wank's partner bid 4♠ not 4♥.

Quote

And partner's free 3H isn't predicated on the idea that I likely have a fit (something like the same kind of hand he has with 5 clubs instead of diamonds) where 9 no trump tricks is as good as it gets.

Partner's 3♥ is predicated on the idea that I have either a fit or a very strong hand.

[jogs]

ahydra, on 2013-August-20, 05:08, said:

I blame team-mates! Getting to 6D is difficult after the 2S interference, since West doesn't really want to risk 4D in case partner doesn't have any diamonds (unless, perhaps, you have good understandings that will allow you to stop in 4NT).

We had our own disaster on this one, (1S)-X-(p)-2H; 2S-4D; 4NT-5D; 6NT, off two. Holding the West hand, I simply couldn't believe partner had real diamonds for his 4D bid! Serves me right - always trust partner... :/

ahydra

Second blaming teammates! lol.
6♦= is still a 5 imp lost.

[cherdano]

RSClyde, on 2013-August-21, 15:11, said:

So clearly 4♦ is forcing. Right?

Double-and-bid is forcing whenever partner has shown some values, as e.g. by making a free bid at the 3-level. This really should be in any textbook explaining double-and-bid, but sadly it probably isn't.

[nige1]

paulg, on 2013-August-20, 04:52, said:

IMPs.

3♥ shows some values as this is a Lebensohl situation for you.

You lose 12 IMPs on the board when team mates go for -1100. Assign the blame (of which I suspect there is much).

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IMO East overbid slightly so West gets most of the blame. 4♦ over 3♥ should be forcing. Against us East first bid 3♥ then, over West's 3N, he bid 4♦. West judged ♦AKQJx worth a raise to 6♦ .