[vang]

Scoring: IMP

---

1♥ - X - 2♥ - pas
4♥ - X - pas - ?

good players, system BWS for all.

Can scoring/vulnerability affect your decision?

(the problem is fom another forum, Author: Adrian Vasile)

[Chamaco]

I pass.

If pard does have his double, it is very likely we are going to set them.

Moreover pard doubled again, so we should infer that he does not have lots of distribution: this means that with our balanced hand we'll hardly have a distributional game on, and bidding 4S would turn a plus into a minus.

If they do make 4H, probably pard overbid (e.g. his second double should show substantially more than simply 16/17 hcp with shortness in opps suit)

[joker_gib]

4♠ directly !

I have nothing (and 2 ♥) so 4♠ is a save or a make, I don't know but I bid it !

[Free]

Pass, I don't have anything usefull for partner in 4♠. With ♠ length, partner should probably bid 4♠ himself, so he won't have more than 4 ♠s (or 5 poor ones) imo.

[whereagles]

This is tough. Pard should have something like a balanced 18-20 hand. 4S probably doesn't make, but it's not clear 4H goes down either. It's a toss up between pass and 4S, I think. Looking at opps faces might help.. lol.

[joker_gib]

whereagles, on Jan 19 2005, 06:37 AM, said:

This is tough. Pard should have something like a balanced 18-20 hand. 4S probably doesn't make, but it's not clear 4H goes down either. It's a toss up between pass and 4S, I think. Looking at opps faces might help.. lol.

I agree but this is an insurance to bid 4♠ !

As I said : maybe you make it (unlikely but...), maybe good save, maybe the bidding is not yet finished and you can push them to 5♥ !?

[whereagles]

Actually, the more I think of it, the more feel opps are goading us into bidding 4S... lol.

[Chamaco]

joker_gib, on Jan 19 2005, 11:58 AM, said:

As I said : maybe you make it (unlikely but...), maybe good save, maybe the bidding is not yet finished and you can push them to 5♥ !?

If pard does have his double, more likely than not the eventual save would be a phantom.

If I had one more spade, I would seriously consider bidding, but with 4432, I doubt 4S would be a rewarding choice.

BTW, if we bid 4S, I doubt serious opps will bid 5H: 4H was a clear preemptive, "shutout" bid.

[flytoox]

I think it is better to pass with this hand. Pd can easily cash four tricks while 4S goes down one or two.

[pclayton]

Edgar Kaplan takes out his partner's takeout doubles. So do I. While your hand sucks, you do have some length in 2 of partner's suits. This double is NOT cooperative. Let the total tricks folks check in on this; they'll disagree; but a lot of this 'thinking' will change over the next year or 2 with Lawrence's book.

Scoring is a HUGE determinant here. At MP's it may be right to break discipline and pass. Anyone who passes this hand at IMPs doesn't understand teams.

[mcphee]

I highly doubt nor expect 5S in partners hand, in fact it is possible they ahve only 3. While I do not offer anything for my bidding so far the second dble at these colors is not going to encourage me to bid now. If I were making 4S I hope I will not be dropping too many imps defending. It's not like we hope to get in and RUN D is it, hehe.

[shanbari]

pclayton, on Jan 19 2005, 11:05 AM, said:

Edgar Kaplan takes out his partner's takeout doubles. So do I. While your hand sucks, you do have some length in 2 of partner's suits. This double is NOT cooperative. Let the total tricks folks check in on this; they'll disagree; but a lot of this 'thinking' will change over the next year or 2 with Lawrence's book.

Scoring is a HUGE determinant here. At MP's it may be right to break discipline and pass. Anyone who passes this hand at IMPs doesn't understand teams.

could you pls give us more detail of why edgar kaplan bid 4s? what's his guideline, or just a guess.

thanks,

shan

[junyi_zhu]

vang, on Jan 19 2005, 09:59 AM, said:

Dealer: West Vul: None Scoring: IMP

♠ Jxxx ♥ xx ♦ Jxxx ♣ xxx

1♥  -  X - 2♥ - pas
4♥ - X - pas - ?

good players, system BWS for all.

Can scoring/vulnerability affect your decision?

(the problem is fom another forum, Author: Adrian Vasile)

Just give partner an excellent hand and see if I have a cold 4S:
SAKxx Hx DAKxx CAKxx, no way, even facing such a hand, we have no play in 4S
while 4H would usually go down 2 or even 3 once a while.
Or change the hand to SAKxx HAx DAKxx CJxx, we still have no good play in 4S when 4H would go down 1 or 2.
Or SAKxx Hx DAxxx CAQxx, 4H would go down one usually and it's possible to make 4H, but 4S would go down 2 or 3 sometimes.
These are all typical hands and I believe the conclusion is obvious.
Sure, once a blue moon, partner may hold: SAKQx Hx DKQTxx CAxx, and you might not be able to defeat 4H sometimes, 4s would also go down just one trick, but the frequency of this kind of hands is rather low I believe. If we always shoot for this kind of perfect hands, we would go broke very soon.

[arrows]

I am broken both in cards and shape, nobody expects me to
do anything with that crappy hand, and I cannot afford to risk
anything either.