[Curls77]

Hi all
What is the best, or proper way to find this grand slam in minor? We play pretty basic 2/1. EW are silent through out. IMPs

2C is GF

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Also, could South prefer to play in ♣ ?
Thanks

[manudude03]

After 1D-2C-2D, I like to play that 3S still shows 4 card support (with 3, either rebid a 4 card major or just raise), so bidding 7m or 7N becomes trivial here. 1D-2C-2D-3S-4C-4D/H/N (depending on what asks for key cards)- 2+Q response, 7N. Maybe 7m is "safer" so far as you only go 1 down if diamonds are 3-0 offside, but you're losing at MPs and 2 imps a lot of the time)

[ahydra]

1D-3C (fit jump)
3NT-4D
4S-4NT (North should cue - his hand is not terrible, he has two aces and six trumps, he already denied slam interest but partner is trying anyway; South asks for keycards)
5S-7NT (North fakes the DQ knowing of a ten-card fit, South can count fifteen tricks)

If South starts with 2C I think it would go 2D-4D (or maybe a 3S splinter as manudude03 suggests, if you have that agreement). Then continue as above from 4S.

ahydra

[Cyberyeti]

After N opens 1♦, S can pretty much keycard in ♦ as soon as he knows N has at least 4, N will show the Q♦ with the known 10 card fit and S will bid 7N.

My auction if I didn't play fit jumps would be 1♦-2♣-2♦-4♥(keycard)-5♦(2+)-7N

My actual auction playing a 4 card diamond would be to ask aces straight over 1♦

[billw55]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-August-05, 04:52, said:

My actual auction playing a 4 card diamond would be to ask aces straight over 1♦

And you will get a response denying the ♦Q. Now what?

[TWO4BRIDGE]

billw55, on 2013-August-05, 06:43, said:

And you will get a response denying the ♦Q. Now what?

Good question.
In my auction, Responder would know of partner's 5+ cards ♦ but not know of a sure 6 cards.
I'd have to stop in 6D .

[Cyberyeti]

billw55, on 2013-August-05, 06:43, said:

And you will get a response denying the ♦Q. Now what?

Of course I won't, I've shown 4+ diamonds by asking aces with 4♥ (3♥ is the void for us) and partner has 6 so he'll show the Q.

[Zelandakh]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-August-05, 04:52, said:

My actual auction playing a 4 card diamond would be to ask aces straight over 1♦

You would not consider a 1NT opening then? That makes it a more interesting problem I think.

Playing relay responses you can find out about North's 6 diamonds at the 2 level via:

1♦ - 1♥ = INV+ relay
1♠ = min without 4 spades (unless 4441/4450)
... - 1NT = GF relay
2♦ = 6+ diamonds, no other 4 card suit,

which makes it pretty trivial. Why specifically grand in a minor by the way? 7NT looks reasonable too.

[Curls77]

So, it would be a big mistake from N to conceal diamond lenght and bid 2N to show min hand but with both majors stopped?

Zelandakh, on 2013-August-05, 07:54, said:

Why specifically grand in a minor by the way? 7NT looks reasonable too.

You're right.. So long minors and double fit blinded us, we didn't even realize there is a play in NT

[bd71]

My partner and I play 2/1 with a handful of extras. I think our auction would go:

1♦ 2♣*     *Unambiguous game-force
2♦* 3♠**    *5+♦, could still hold 4cM **Splinter, extent of ♦ fit undiscussed
3N* 4♦**    *Non-serious **Minorwood (If opener likes his two aces and bids 4♣ with "serious" interest, it proceeds the same regardless.)
4N* 6♦**    *2 w/o Q, North might believe we have only 6-3 fit, so won't fake the Q **South might see only 5-4 fit, so won't go 7 w/o the Q despite all keycards and counting

Cliffs notes: due to likely uncertainty on both sides about extent of diamond fit, we would peter out in 6♦

Lesson: have an agreement that splinters always guarantee a 9-card fit based on what non-splintering partner has shown. With that agreement, or if North makes that assumption during the auction even without the agreement, I think this grand is easy.

Good illustrative auction to take back to partner...

[mr1303]

The only challenge here is does North show ♦Q here or not.

The rest of the bidding is fairly trivial.

[billw55]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-August-05, 07:43, said:

Of course I won't, I've shown 4+ diamonds by asking aces with 4♥ (3♥ is the void for us) and partner has 6 so he'll show the Q.

Ah ok, understand.

Will partner also do this with 5 diamonds?

[Fluffy]

Curls77, on 2013-August-05, 08:28, said:

So, it would be a big mistake from N to conceal diamond lenght and bid 2N to show min hand but with both majors stopped?

Not big, somewhat unlucky. I would also have problems to find the 10th diamond. Rebidding 1NT with that shape would be pretty normal as it is a cheap bid, but rebidding 2NT over 2♣ on the contrary is not that good, if fact I play 1♦-2♣-2NT with some partners as maximum (14), rebidding 2♦ even with 3 cards when minimum.

[Free]

Opener has a clear 2♦ rebid, not sure though if responder's 3♠ is a splinter for ♦ or a self-splinter. Either way, South can always use Blacky once trumps are set.

The real difficulty is if North shows the ♦Q. If he doesn't (5♥ response over Blacky), then perhaps 5NT should be some kind of ask for extra trump length (since 5♠ is King ask).

[Cyberyeti]

Zelandakh, on 2013-August-05, 07:54, said:

You would not consider a 1NT opening then? That makes it a more interesting problem I think.

Would be equally easy for us over a 1N opener.

1N-2♠(signoff one minor or GF slam interest both)
3♣(4+♦)-4♥(keycard ♦, at least 5-4 in the minors either way round)
5♦(can afford to show Q)-7N

[Cyberyeti]

billw55, on 2013-August-05, 09:45, said:

Ah ok, understand.

Will partner also do this with 5 diamonds?

No, he needs to be pretty sure you have 10 between the 2 hands, so you can miss grand on 5-5 fit.

[mike777]

don't think north has to show QD. 2d must show 6d here I don't rebid jxxxx in fact I almost never rebid a 5 card suit.

I just ace ask over 2d, nothing fancy.

[Cyberyeti]

mike777, on 2013-August-05, 17:58, said:

don't think north has to show QD. 2d must show 6d here I don't rebid jxxxx in fact I almost never rebid a 5 card suit.

I just ace ask over 2d, nothing fancy.

This is fine in 2/1

some other systems have to rebid 2♦ with 5♦/4M and insufficient to reverse.

[Zelandakh]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-August-05, 11:36, said:

Would be equally easy for us over a 1N opener.

Does your regular partner read these forums? If not, I would be interested if you gave them this 7-4 hand blind whether they chose to treat it as "both minors" or "one-suited with clubs". If they choose the latter then finding the 3rd round diamond "control" becomes interesting.

[lycier]

Curls77, on 2013-August-05, 04:07, said:

Hi all
What is the best, or proper way to find this grand slam in minor? We play pretty basic 2/1. EW are silent through out. IMPs

2C is GF

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Also, could South prefer to play in ♣ ?
Thanks

It is a simple question,the sequences are at below:

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