[xx1943]

This was our bidding with standard methods

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Do you have the tools to bid this good grand?

The grand has more than 75%.
clubs 3-2
East single 10 or J of clubs
heart-club squeeze against either opponent, who holds the heart honors and 4 clubs.

[Fluffy]

My system would go like this, but it is suboptiomal.

2♣-2♦ (2♦ weak, less than 8)
2NT-3♥ (2NT GF, for 23 balanced we use multi, 3♥ is transfer)
3♠-4♥ (3♠ promises a fit, 3NT otherwise. 4♥ is a short suit slam try/splinter, otherwise a forcing 3NT would be bid asking for cuebids)
7♠

The most important thing to realice is that the 3NT jump is dreadful, it consumes so much space, the 3 level is needed to locate a fit for construvtive bidding to be possible.

If you don't play multi, consider including kokish: 2♣-2♦-2♥ as a 2 way bid, either natural hearts, or balanced hand with the other range that 2NT would have, this way you have 2 ways to reach 2NT:

2♣-2♦
2NT

2♣-2♦
2♥-2♠
2NT

one of them is usually played non forcing (23 or so) while the other is forcing (normally the second one is the stronger version)

Also note that it is better to play long suit slam try (4♣) than short suit slam try which I play, but both would work fine this time.

[gordontd]

The 3NT rebid causes you problems. If you played Kokish or reverse Kokish, you would gain a round of bidding which would allow South to cue-bid/super-accept with 4C, North to cue-bid hearts at the four level, and then you would be better placed.

[Cyberyeti]

 gordontd, on 2013-July-18, 04:39, said:

The 3NT rebid causes you problems. If you played Kokish or reverse Kokish, you would gain a round of bidding which would allow South to cue-bid/super-accept with 4C, North to cue-bid hearts at the four level, and then you would be better placed.

We play a form of Kokish (2N rebid 22-23, slow 2N 24-25, 3N 26-27), but would still need a 26-27 3N rebid.

My suspicion is that we'd bid:

2♣-2♦
3N-4♥(♠)
4N(4♠ minimum)-6♣(5 clubs would be cue, 6♣ is a non mimimum 5+-5+, Q♣ pretty certain, Q♠ or a 6th one very likely)
7♠

And 7N is 75%, 7♠ is a lot better than that.

[Zelandakh]

1♣ = 15+ bal/nat or 18+ any
... - 1♦ = almost any non-GF
3♦ = 25-26 bal with 4+ spades and <4 hearts
... - 4♥ = puppet to 4♠
4♠
... - 4NT = RKCB
5♥ = 2 or 5 without ♠Q
... - 5NT = K ask
6♣ = ♣K
... - 6♦ = K ask
6NT = ♦K
... - 7♠

Do we need to think about squeezes to make this btw? It looks like we can just ruff 2 hearts providing trumps are not 4-0.

Edit: some lines got deleted somehow

[Free]

In my partnership:
2♣-2♦ (strong ; positive)
2♥-2♠ (Kokish ; obligated)
2NT-3♥ (NT 25+ ; transfer ♠)
4♦-4NT (4+♠ with ♦ cue, doesn't deny ♣ cue ; RKC Blacky)
5♥-5NT (2/5 without ♠Q ; K ask)
6♣-6♦ (♣K ; ♦K?)
7♠-7NT (yes ; great, let's get some extra MP's)

Remark: After the transfer 4♣ would show a 3 card support, that's why 4♦ is the lowest available cue with 4 card support.

[ArtK78]

 xx1943, on 2013-July-18, 04:01, said:

This was our bidding with standard methods

---

Do you have the tools to bid this good grand?

The grand has more than 75%.
clubs 3-2
East single 10 or J of clubs
heart-club squeeze against either opponent, who holds the heart honors and 4 clubs.

Bidding slams with a very strong balanced hand facing a weak distributional hand can be difficult. The key is for the weak hand to make it known to partner that there are multiple sources of tricks.

The 5♠ bid got you close. If North bid 6♣ over 5♠ you would probably get to the grand.

[xx1943]

 Zelandakh, on 2013-July-18, 05:14, said:

1♣ = 15+ bal/nat or 18+ any
... - 1♦ = almost any non-GF
3♦ = 25-26 bal with 4+ spades and <4 hearts
... - 4♥ = puppet to 4♠
4♠
... - 4NT = RKCB
5♥ = 2 or 5 without ♠Q
... - 5NT = K ask
6♣ = ♣K
... - 6♦ = K ask
6NT = ♦K
... - 7♠

Do we need to think about squeezes to make this btw? It looks like we can just ruff 2 hearts providing trumps are not 4-0.

Edit: some lines got deleted somehow

yes trumps were 4=0 and you need the squeeze
this was the complete hand:

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[Cyberyeti]

 xx1943, on 2013-July-18, 08:39, said:

yes trumps were 4=0 and you need the squeeze
this was the complete hand:

---

No you don't.

Say K♥ lead, win A.
♥ ruff
♠ 9 to A
♥ ruff with 10
Q♠
♠ to 8 and claim

Edit: you can actually ruff the third heart with the Q then finesse if you have to.

[Zelandakh]

You can also afford an early ♠A to check the layout before the first ♥ ruff.

[MrAce]

 xx1943, on 2013-July-18, 08:39, said:

yes trumps were 4=0 and you need the squeeze

No you don't

 Zelandakh, on 2013-July-18, 09:00, said:

You can also afford an early ♠A to check the layout before the first ♥ ruff.

Thats better because in another hand W could hold 4 trumps.

[Winstonm]

2C-2D
3N-4H
4S-6C
7S

[Cyberyeti]

 MrAce, on 2013-July-18, 09:28, said:

Thats better because in another hand W could hold 4 trumps.

Why, my line works equally well in that case as long as 1 club and 1 diamond stand up.

I'm just using A♠ as an additional entry to S to ruff another heart so reducing the number of side enties I need.

[Fluffy]

 Cyberyeti, on 2013-July-18, 04:59, said:

We play a form of Kokish (2N rebid 22-23, slow 2N 24-25, 3N 26-27), but would still need a 26-27 3N rebid.

I think jumping around with 26+ is pretty bad, I played 23+ unlimited forcing for some years and although it was not really good, I think it was better than jumping around. If you have extras you just have to use judgement to reopen the bidding later after you've found a fit.

[akhare]

Here's our auction:

1♣...1♥ (16+; 4+♠)
1♠...1N (ask; balanced or ♠+♣)
2♣....2♠ (ask; at least 5-5 in the blacks)
2N....3♣ (ask; ♥ singleton or void)
3♦...3♥ (ask; 5=1=2=5 exactly)
4♣....4♦ (strength ask; 2-3 QPs)
4♥...5N (DCB; 3 QPs, odd AKQ parity in ♠/♣/♦ and Q♠ without J♠)
6♣....6♦ (J♣?; no)
7♠

[gszes]

commenting on how good slam is it is over 90% all u need is
no opening lead ruff and trumps no worse than 31

even if trumps are 40 u have a chance if the long trumps has
at least 3 clubs bringing total chances to closer to 92%

using my own home grown method

2c
2h spades and another suit at least 55 says nothing about power
2s sets trumps and asks if there is any extra length in either long suit
3c 2nd suit and no
3s asks for controls in 2 long suits a=3k=2 q=1
4d 2
5c any jacks in 2 long suits?
5n no
7s its extremely unlikely we can make 7n ill pay off to it at mp

[Free]

 xx1943, on 2013-July-18, 08:39, said:

yes trumps were 4=0 and you need the squeeze

You only need the squeeze when playing 7NT. In 7♠ you have a dummy reversal.