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What auction? How do you get to 6NT?

#1 User is offline   Dale57 

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Posted 2013-June-24, 21:32

South deals. N/S pass throughout.

What SAYC auction gets to 6NT?
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#2 User is online   Winstonm 

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Posted 2013-June-24, 21:41

1D-3NT
6NT
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#3 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2013-June-25, 02:07

View PostDale57, on 2013-June-24, 21:32, said:

South deals. N/S pass throughout.

What SAYC auction gets to 6NT?

A harder question is: What auction, in any system, does not get to 6NT? At some point, West will show he has a balanced hand of about 19 HCP, and East, if on form, will manage to correctly add 16 to that. Luckily, he can afford to be within one or two of the correct answer and still get the decision right - which can only add to the odds of reaching 6NT. Alternatively, East will show he has a balanced hand of about 16 points, and it is West who has to whip out his abacus (or remove his shoes and socks, and do the counting the old-fashioned way).
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#4 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2013-June-25, 02:43

View PostEricK, on 2013-June-25, 02:07, said:

A harder question is: What auction, in any system, does not get to 6NT? At some point, West will show he has a balanced hand of about 19 HCP, and East, if on form, will manage to correctly add 16 to that. Luckily, he can afford to be within one or two of the correct answer and still get the decision right - which can only add to the odds of reaching 6NT. Alternatively, East will show he has a balanced hand of about 16 points, and it is West who has to whip out his abacus (or remove his shoes and socks, and do the counting the old-fashioned way).

This is about right, I don't know SAYC well, but any of the following do the job:

2N-5N-6N
1-2-3N(I assume this is 18-19 bal in SAYC)-6N
1-3N(not sure if 13-15 or bigger in SAYC)-4N-6N if 13-15
1-3N(not sure if 13-15 or bigger in SAYC)-6N if bigger but less than 18
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#5 User is offline   Dale57 

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Posted 2013-June-25, 05:35

View PostWinstonm, on 2013-June-24, 21:41, said:

1D-3NT
6NT

BBO's interactive SAYC convention card says that 3NT shows 13-15. This would have gotten us to 6 despite undervaluing East's hand. The hands are close to 7NT but no one would be tempted after 1 3NT. If East were stronger- AKQx, then what auction?

Thanks for your reply. :)
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#6 User is offline   Dale57 

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Posted 2013-June-25, 05:50

View PostCyberyeti, on 2013-June-25, 02:43, said:

This is about right, I don't know SAYC well, but any of the following do the job:

2N-5N-6N
1-2-3N(I assume this is 18-19 bal in SAYC)-6N
1-3N(not sure if 13-15 or bigger in SAYC)-4N-6N if 13-15
1-3N(not sure if 13-15 or bigger in SAYC)-6N if bigger but less than 18


BBO's interactive SAYC convention card seems to refute these auctions.
2N Only if you upgrade West.
1-2-3N This was the actual auction. As East, I took 3N to show a sound but minimum opener, leaving us a bit short of 6N. BBO SAYC describes 3N as "signoff".
1-3N 13-15 Undervaluing the East hand works here. But what bid if East is stronger- AKQx?

Thank you for your reply. :)
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#7 User is offline   Dale57 

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Posted 2013-June-25, 05:58

View PostEricK, on 2013-June-25, 02:07, said:

A harder question is: What auction, in any system, does not get to 6NT? At some point, West will show he has a balanced hand of about 19 HCP, and East, if on form, will manage to correctly add 16 to that. Luckily, he can afford to be within one or two of the correct answer and still get the decision right - which can only add to the odds of reaching 6NT. Alternatively, East will show he has a balanced hand of about 16 points, and it is West who has to whip out his abacus (or remove his shoes and socks, and do the counting the old-fashioned way).


Then let me ask "How does West show a balanced 19 after 1-2?" and "How does East show a balanced 16 after partner opens 1?"

Thank you for your sarcasm. B-) "He was so stupid, he couldn't count to 21 unless he were naked."
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#8 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2013-June-25, 06:15

View PostDale57, on 2013-June-25, 05:50, said:

BBO's interactive SAYC convention card seems to refute these auctions.
2N Only if you upgrade West.
1-2-3N This was the actual auction. As East, I took 3N to show a sound but minimum opener, leaving us a bit short of 6N. BBO SAYC describes 3N as "signoff".
1-3N 13-15 Undervaluing the East hand works here. But what bid if East is stronger- AKQx?

Thank you for your reply. :)

I would upgrade this hand anyway, it's a whale of a 19, put it opposite say xx, Q10xx, Qxxx, xxx for example and it will make 4 most of the time unlike most 19s and a lot of 20s.

If 3N means sound minimum, there must be a bid for a balanced 18-19, whether it's 2N, 3N or 4N you show it and partner bids the slam.

I'm not averse to downgrading E's 16 as the 2 Qxx suits and flat shape are not good, but if I have 18, I bid 2 and when partner shows me 18-19 I bid 5N (bid 6 or 7).
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#9 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2013-June-25, 06:24

View PostDale57, on 2013-June-25, 05:35, said:

BBO's interactive SAYC convention card says that 3NT shows 13-15.

Then BBO's convention card is wrong. Winston's auction is correct although you could also bid
1-2
3NT-6NT.
See for example the acbl sayc booklet
pretty good defense against a grand with no overtricks given away. --- johnu
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#10 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2013-June-25, 06:47

View PostDale57, on 2013-June-24, 21:32, said:

South deals. N/S pass throughout.

What SAYC auction gets to 6NT?


1D - 2C ( should promise a rebid in SAYC )
2H - 3NT ( 15-17 )
6NT
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#11 User is offline   Dale57 

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Posted 2013-June-25, 07:44

View PostTWO4BRIDGE, on 2013-June-25, 06:47, said:

1D - 2C ( should promise a rebid in SAYC )
2H - 3NT ( 15-17 )
6NT


Thank you, especially for the link!
I also thought that 2H was a better rebid by West based on East's guarantee of a rebid, but "blame partner" is the easy way out. :P Looking at the ACBL pdf, it seems that the "proper" sequence is 1-3N (16-17)-6N (19 + 16/17 = 35/36) Clean, defined, and no improvising.
Thank you very much! :D
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#12 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2013-June-29, 00:35

I might even end up in 7NT depending on a 3-3 split or a minor suit squeeze. There's no way to stay below 6NT imo.
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