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Accused -and ejected!

#1 User is offline   nikos59 

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Posted 2005-January-09, 01:12

Hi all

I had a puzzling or perhaps funny experience the other day. We were playing matchpoints and this hand
occurred (me sitting East):


Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     Pass  Pass
 1    Pass  1    Pass
 3    Pass  4    Pass
 Pass  Pass  



South led a trump and due to the friendly lie of the cards
I was able to make 11 tricks for a shared top.

Next hand began and South announced that the bidding was strange.
Upon request, he/she specified that the 3H bid was strange. A bit of an
overbid, I admitted, but "you cannot argue with success". Yes, he retorted,
"but I can argue with the means used to reach this success".
And he specified that we reached this contract taking advantage of
huddles and tempo variations. Now, this seemed ridiculous to me,
but I merely answered that when playing online against people from
faraway countries tempo variations are due to bad connections and
are to be expected. In the meantime, the oppos had received another
bad score because they played an obvious slam and misguessed trumps so
lost the overtrick.

Question: assuming that 3H is made after a huddle (I did not perceive
any huddle, but let's assume it for the sake of argument) isn' my
4H bid totally obvious?

Now, South warned:
"I insist that delays and hesitations are not part of the tools of trade for bidding or play .....I'll leave this table if it happens again; make no mistake !!!"

The next board had began, and I held:
J 10 x x
A Q J
x
J x x x x

South was dealer at love all and passed. Pard opened 1D. North
overcalled 1S. What do you bid?
Well, I bid 1NT not liking very much my stopper neither the diamond
singleton but I felt I could not pass.
S bid 2D unalerted, pard doubled and this was passed out
to S who did not make a call. After a while, having already
received the sermon about huddles, I said "faster pls" whereupon
S exploded:

S: nikos59, please leave this table, NOW: ty
nikos59: why, pray tell?
S: because you are now not a quality bridge player, but a nuisance; so please leave
nikos59: We are a nuisance because we beat you?

It transpired that S had been asking privately partner
about the double, because the very next line of chat read:
S: North, I asked you for an explanation of your X; you replied "normal" ; what kind of a reply is that for a bridge player ?
S: North, will you respond to my query ?

whereupon I ventured:

nikos59: perhaps he means "natural"; perhaps he is no native english speaker

and pard replied:
North: i opened 1D or not?

but he could add no further explanation because we were
both ejected from the table simultaneously -and I wasn't
able to see what the hands were! I hasten to add that
North didn't participate at all in the proceedings and that
his/her only contribution was an occasional "glp-typ".

Nikos

This post has been edited by Rain: 2005-January-09, 17:21

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#2 User is offline   Flame 

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Posted 2005-January-09, 01:31

some players are bad losers, nothing you can do about it, otehr then ignore them.
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#3 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2005-January-09, 04:23

Your 4 bid was entirely normal.

Partner's 3 was aggressive, but so what? If he bids only 2, you will make an invitation and he will accept. Anyway, what does a huddle followed by 3 imply anyway? If anything it implies that it is a stretch, so the UI would suggest passing rather than bidding on.

It really sounds to me like they had no genuine reason to complain. As Flame says, they are probably a bad loser. Although I am wary to make any diagnosis having only heard one side of the story.

Eric
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#4 User is offline   Gerben47 

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Posted 2005-January-09, 05:29

I cannot see why this would be funny, I would never play at the same table as South again. 4 was 'bleeding obvious'. Also privately ask what double is is not done. I would rather make my decision and apologize or ask why it was wrong after that.

This post has been edited by Rain: 2005-January-09, 17:22

Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do!
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#5 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2005-January-09, 05:52

Gerben47, on Jan 9 2005, 01:29 PM, said:

Also privately ask what double is is not done.

Interesting point. I really hate those questions about calls that probably cary no agreed-upon meaning. In real life the problem is that whatever you reply you give pd an UI. Online it's worse.
When did pass become a 4-letter word? --- WinstonM
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#6 User is offline   rona_ 

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Posted 2005-January-09, 07:47

Might as well post the names of South and North. It took me 2 seconds to find out who they were, since your partner's name was mentioned too. The moderating team must still be in bed. :P :ph34r:

This post has been edited by Rain: 2005-January-09, 17:23

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#7 User is offline   pbleighton 

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Posted 2005-January-09, 08:21

"Might as well post the names of the South and North. It took me 2 seconds to find out who they were, since your partner's name was mentioned too. The moderating team must still be in bed."

Why post the names, just because someone can find them out?

I think omitting the names was correct.

If you were to post the names, that would be gratuitous rudeness.

Peter

This post has been edited by Rain: 2005-January-09, 17:23

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#8 User is offline   Gerben47 

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Posted 2005-January-09, 08:46

Misread the part about privately asking... It sort of looked like South and North asked about double, which is of course not done.

This post has been edited by Rain: 2005-January-09, 17:24

Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do!
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#9 User is offline   rona_ 

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Posted 2005-January-09, 09:01

Sorry PBleighton I must have not expressed myself correctly..Nikos mentioned his partner's name which made it easy for everyone to find out who their opponents were. I thought that was just as bad as mentioning the opponents' names. No names should be mentioned...Geez...I need English lessons....and bridge lessons....and and and.... :ph34r: :P i was trying to be sarcastic but obviously failed:)
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#10 User is offline   pbleighton 

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Posted 2005-January-09, 09:05

No apology necessary :ph34r:

Peter
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#11 User is offline   nikos59 

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Posted 2005-January-09, 09:18

Rona said:
<<Nikos mentioned his partner's name which made it easy for everyone to find out who their opponents were. I thought that was just as bad as mentioning the opponents' names. No names should be mentioned>>

Sorry, but I am not persuaded. Hiding my partner's name
would just make it a tiny bit more difficult, since on this given day
I only played one 4H+1 contract. I already gave an innocent
false clue when I wrote "the other day". Whoever wants to
play the detective and find identities can do so because
the deal is there and we only play 10-20 hands per day. It
is a matter of 3 mins to find this elusive 4H+1 contract.

Do you mean that I should I go out of my
way to mask the identities, ie that I should
deliberately change the data of the hand (switch suits etc.?)

This has two risks, a) by switching suits carelessly I might
make a mistake (and it is too hard work as well) and
b) I might be accused of inventing things that never
happened.

I really would like to know what is the opinion of the
moderating team.

Nikos
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#12 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2005-January-09, 12:05

After the slow 3 call, anything BUT 4 is taking advantage of partner's hitch, calls like 3N, slam tries, ............and PASS!. etc..

Pard probably has other options; maybe pard is jumping with 3 card support and some 1345 hand; or maybe pard has some hand that actually makes slam, or maybe pard has a 2 1/2 heart call.

I know who the player is and I didnt even need to look it up on myhands. Perhaps be a little more discreet here.
"Phil" on BBO
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#13 User is offline   Cowology 

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Posted 2005-January-09, 16:09

Just outa curiosity, not because I in any way actually care who North or South players are, but how do you go abut looking up hands in this manner? I didn't even know it was possible to look up other peoples logged deals somehow.

This post has been edited by Rain: 2005-January-09, 17:24

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#14 User is offline   Rain 

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Posted 2005-January-09, 17:17

go to www.bridgebase.com/myhands

Type in the name of whoever's hands you want. This only keeps records for a short while, however. If you want more hand records there are softwares you can buy.

Yeah in bed, sorry.

Edited all to north/south.

I think Inquiry has mentioned before. No names allowed. And if you need to mask the names, giving so much clue as to who they are defeats the purpose too. For this hand (as for most others), it was a lot easier to just say North and South. This is for when you say negative things to others. I think if you want to praise someone, obviously its ok to mention names. This is general polite societal behaviour, imo (since someone asked for moderator opinion)


Rain
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John Nelson.
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#15 User is offline   Cowology 

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Posted 2005-January-09, 17:20

Nifty :-) thanks
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#16 User is offline   fred 

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Posted 2005-January-09, 17:38

I would not even characterize the 3H bid as aggressive - I think it was a normal good bid that I would expect well over 90% of "experts" to make.

As for the 4H bid, it is beyond normal. To bid anything other than 4H would be completely absurd in my view.

South's accusation of cheating was completely inappropriate, regardless of what he/she thought of the merits of the 3H bid (but it turns out her bridge judgment in this particular case was totally wrong in my view).

I don't think you would be at all out of line to report this incident to abuse@bridgebase.com.


I hope you had no regrets about being booted from this table, Nikos. You deserve better than to have to put up with crap like this.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com


(Sorry Fred, edited. Anyway your story was partially wrong. It was not the north player who made accusation, but the south player. )

This post has been edited by Rain: 2005-January-09, 17:43

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#17 User is offline   nikos59 

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Posted 2005-January-10, 01:43

To Rain:
As I said in my second posting, masking identities
is not without risk; for instance, in my initial post
as it stands now [after your intervention] the
final exchange is wrong; it is not North [i.e.
the star player] who says "I opened 1D, didn't I?".
My partner (i.e. West) said that.

To Fred: thanks for the kind words. My only regret
at being booted out at the time it happened was
that I did not have time to see all four hands
of the last deal.

Nikos
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#18 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2005-January-10, 04:03

nikos59, on Jan 10 2005, 08:43 AM, said:

To Rain:
As I said in my second posting, masking identities
is not without risk; for instance, in my initial post
as it stands now [after your intervention] the
final exchange is wrong; it is not North [i.e.
the star player] who says "I opened 1D, didn't I?".
My partner (i.e. West) said that.

To Fred: thanks for the kind words. My only regret
at being booted out at the time it happened was
that I did not have time to see all four hands
of the last deal.

Nikos

Can't you look the hand up in 'myhands' from your silly opponents? :(
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#19 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2005-January-10, 08:09

When people talk about hands played on BBO we have a delicate balance. It is not hard to find any hand a given player had. Some exceptions of course. Some people post here with a name that they don't use on the BBO. So unless you know their on line name, you are hopeless to find their hands. Some players post hands they kibitz, which become impossible to find (at least until the hand shows up in BridgeBrowser, where you can enter a specific hand and find it).

But to not allow post when such questions as this arise is hardly fair to the person wanting to raise the question or to vent. So moderators walk a delicate line here. On the plus side, there is so few who would care enough to go look up the hand.

What do users think. If a post like this comes along again, if we think too much information is given etc, should we simple delete the post? I think our approach is to edit out names and let it stand, but this allows potential abuse of the rules. Any opinions?

Ben
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#20 User is offline   Chamaco 

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Posted 2005-January-10, 08:15

inquiry, on Jan 10 2005, 02:09 PM, said:

I think our approach is to edit out names and let it stand, but this allows potential abuse of the rules. Any opinions?

I do not expect to be original, but my opinion is that in future "myhands" engine version, one should provide also a password to access his own hands.
This would eliminate the "privacy" issue.
"Bridge is like dance: technique's important but what really matters is not to step on partner's feet !"
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