[wanoff]

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4 card majors / 12-14 NT
Rightly or wrongly we still play it weak in 3rd Vul but some 12s can be passed.

[the hog]

Yes. Nth should bid 2NT, not 3NT. How can Nth pass first in hand, ( I wouldn't), and then bid 3NT. Nth is clearly a butcher. South might have passed. This is a really crappy hand. Our bidding would have been
1H 1S
2S 2NT
Pass

[Zelandakh]

An alternative auction that amounts to the same thing is 1NT - 2♣; 2♥ - 2NT. Not all weak NTers like raising 1♠ here with a weak balanced hand. Presumably most of the 5 card Majorites and the weak NT Puppeteers will end up in hearts.

[wank]

some 12 counts can be passed? i'm curious to see which you would pass if you open this shite. this hand is worth about 10 points and opening this is the worst action of auction by far imo.

as for north, yes, you can't pass first in and then jump to game in NTs. that inconsistency shows at least one action is wrong. i think the pass is worse - i don't object to forcing to game opposite a vul opening bid with this hand. give south a vaguely sensible opening bid and game's going to have play. sadly by passing in the first place though you've made it easy for the opps to smack 3NT if hearts aren't splitting (decent players will realise that their partners are marked with points once you can't open and the other hand has 12-14), which affects the break-even point for bidding tight games - normally around 40% at this vul.

[ahydra]

With AAK I would open north hand 1H (we also play weak NT 4cM but open 5332 with a good 5-card major suit in the major). Then I'm probably getting to either 2NT or 4H depending on what North decides to rebid., unless South takes the low road with 3H.

If North decided to pass, which is reasonable, then he should bid 2NT next round; South then stops in 3H, no problem. (I'm intrigued as to why South didn't correct holding a shortage and three trumps)

ahydra

[Hanoi5]

North forgot to open and then tried to make up for it.

[nigel_k]

North's 3NT was a slight overbid. South's 1NT was a huge overbid.

[rmnka447]

North should open 1 ♥, but that didn't happen.

I see no problem with opening 1 NT in third seat with the South hand. It is 12 HCP, but only has 1 1/2 QTs. It is a borderline opening hand at best. So opening it is a bit aggressive, but that's OK if partner would take that into consideration.

After the transfer, North's bid is 2 NT if South is known to push a little opening in 3rd seat.

I agree the 3 NT bid was North trying to catch up after failing to bid 1 ♥ in the first place. If you make a judgement on a hand, stick with it unless partner makes a bid that substantially increases the value of your hand. That didn't happen here, partner only puppeted to the transfer spot.

[ggwhiz]

I agree with all of the above but South dropped the ball too. Double KQ is a horrible holding for notrump and if you change a small club into a diamond in the North hand, 4♥ has a shot. Mind you the contract should be 3 of them.

[mike777]

the hog, on 2013-June-13, 04:57, said:

Yes. Nth should bid 2NT, not 3NT. How can Nth pass first in hand, ( I wouldn't), and then bid 3NT. Nth is clearly a butcher. South might have passed. This is a really crappy hand. Our bidding would have been
1H 1S
2S 2NT
Pass

agree with the HOG but really folks bidding an aggressive 3nt on these cards at imps seems fine\, all the more given we are vul.


Frankly I doubt this is the reason we lose at imps

[ArtK78]

Hate the 1NT opening with the North hand. If ever there was a balanced 5 card major hand NOT suited to a 1NT opening, this is it. A AK and out.

After a pass by South on his 12 count (a hand that many would open), it is easy to arrive at 2♥ if you play Drury and are disciplined. And 2♥ is plenty high enough on these cards.

[wank]

ArtK78, on 2013-June-17, 08:48, said:

Hate the 1NT opening with the North hand. If ever there was a balanced 5 card major hand NOT suited to a 1NT opening, this is it. A AK and out.

After a pass by South on his 12 count (a hand that many would open), it is easy to arrive at 2♥ if you play Drury and are disciplined. And 2♥ is plenty high enough on these cards.

methinks you've got a little mixed up vis a vis who did what.

[ArtK78]

wank, on 2013-June-17, 14:03, said:

methinks you've got a little mixed up vis a vis who did what.

You are right. It just never occurred to me that anyone would pass the North hand under any circumstances, so I assumed that it was the North hand that opened 1NT and it was the South hand that had passed in first seat.

So, South opens a 12-14 1NT in third seat. North has a clear invite, transferring to hearts. South completes the transfer and North bids 2NT. South, with Qxx of hearts, takes the preference to 3♥, and North passes. What could be easier?

Quite frankly, I like my auction better, but you can't play Drury opposite an unpassed hand.

[Zelandakh]

ArtK78, on 2013-June-17, 14:36, said:

Quite frankly, I like my auction better, but you can't play Drury opposite an unpassed hand.

You can play one of various methods that allow you to make a 3 card limit raise and stop in 2 of the major though.

[gszes]

the hog, on 2013-June-13, 04:57, said:

Yes. Nth should bid 2NT, not 3NT. How can Nth pass first in hand, ( I wouldn't), and then bid 3NT. Nth is clearly a butcher. South might have passed. This is a really crappy hand. Our bidding would have been
1H 1S
2S 2NT
Pass

rest of analysis I agree with but i do not see the 2n bid where 3h
and at least a 43 spade fit make playing in a suit seem much
better.