[jillybean]

---

Now put 4 sane players at the table, how would the auction go?

[Lord Molyb]

1♦ - 1♥ - X - P
2♣ - P -2♦ - All Pass

[EricK]

Whether or not East opens is a matter of style/agreements rather than sanity. Obviously you will get completely different auctions in each case. Similarly, South has a marginal opening bid. I think after a start of 1♦ (1♥), a sane West will look at his hand and decide 1NT is a better description than X. North might now venture a negative X, East will run to 2♣, South will bid 2♠, and there it will rest.
To summarise:
1♦ 1♥ 1NT X
2♣ 2♠ All Pass

[trevahound]

I might have acted differently in some previous seats (passing with N seems insanely pessimistic to me), but E's final 3♦ call and S's painful 3♥ call are the truly insane calls of the auction, both in the face of what could very well be misfits. For me, E has a clear 3♣ call if taking another call (I would), to improve the chances of getting to the right strain, and S has nothing resembling a 3♥ call after N passed the first time. RHO has both minors, partner has likely just 2 hearts, so where or where might the rest of my suit lay?

[ArtK78]

EricK, on 2013-June-10, 11:55, said:

Whether or not East opens is a matter of style/agreements rather than sanity. Obviously you will get completely different auctions in each case. Similarly, South has a marginal opening bid. I think after a start of 1♦ (1♥), a sane West will look at his hand and decide 1NT is a better description than X. North might now venture a negative X, East will run to 2♣, South will bid 2♠, and there it will rest.
To summarise:
1♦ 1♥ 1NT X
2♣ 2♠ All Pass

Negative double by the partner of an overcaller? That is the first time I have heard of this. The double by North should show values, not spades (and, since North has values, the double is perfectly reasonable).

Stating that the double by North is negative is more wishful thinking than normal bridge, since the negative double uncovers the spade fit. It is unusual for South to have both majors since South neither doubled the 1♦ opening nor bid Michaels.

Characterizing East's bid as a "run to 2♣" is a little pejorative, as he has 5-5. I would better describe the bid as showing his hand. If I were East, I might bid a 3rd club when the bidding came back to me.

[rmnka447]

I have no problem with the auction through 2 ♥.

East has opened a 5-5 Rule of 20 hand with 2 QTs -- that's OK.

South has a NV overcall.

West makes the negative double to show the ♠s, can bid NT later if need be.

North certainly isn't getting into the auction when West presumably shows 4 ♠s.

East bids out the hand pattern. West makes the proper preference knowing East presumably has 5 ♦s.

North makes a competitive bid in ♥, it's OK with a doubleton at this point. Playing 2 ♥ isn't much different than ending up there after a forcing NT auction (i.e.[opponents passing] 1 ♥ - 1 NT - 2m - 2 ♥)

If East is going to make another bid over 2 ♥, it's preferable to bid 3 ♣ and finish bidding out the hand pattern. As happens in this hand, West will frequently preference to ♦ holding 2 ♦, 3 ♣ because a 5-2 7 card fit usually plays better than a 4-3 fit. If East bids 3 ♣, E/W have found there best contract.

Whatever East does, South doesn't have any further bid. If North had any decent hand with 3+ ♥s, a raise would have been made directly over the negative double. That leaves North with either a hand with 3+ ♥ not strong enough for a direct raise or a hand with a doubleton ♥. In both cases, with South's minimal overcall, a big penalty is possible at 3 ♥.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

North may make XX at his first turn, afterall he has
a nice hand, lacking the diamond stopper 1NT does not
really look good, 1Hxx will be quite ok, assuming a
sensible 1H overcall.

The advantage is, that North told his story, and does
not feel the urgency to bid 2H at his 2nd turn.

3D, 3H are ...

West did bid ok, North did bid like an unexperienced
player, East / South should ask to partner each other
so that the other are protected from their lunatic actions
on the table.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[the hog]

At my table it would go
1D 1H 1S 1NT
2C P all pass

[Codo]

1 ♦ 1 ♥ x is okay, I had given up on spades with the west hand and bid 1 NT, but ok...
After the double I had no good choice for north in standard methods. I guess I would try 1 NT, but pass and see what will happen can work too.
2 ♣ loos easy enough, so does south pass. Now West has the trouble he was looking for with his double, but 2 ♦ looks like a way out.
Whether 2 ♥ from north shows this hand? I have no idea, maybe.
The bidders of 3 ♦ and 3 ♥ obviously and wrongly believe that partner had a complete other hand, so these bids are nuts.
3 ♣ from East should have ended the auction...

[inquiry]

It seems like only one "insane" (not my word) player is at the table. South North could not raise to 2♥, so after north passed over the negative double, South should never consider bidding again. North's 2♥ bid was an attempt to win 8 tricks on power, something that would go wrong, but I have some sympathy for the 2♥ bid.. not a lot but some. Over 2♥, I think EAST made a mistake. The mistake is that if, and that is a big if, he is going to bid again, he should consider 3♣ not 3♦. If EW should be in diamonds, West would correct that. However, East has bid ALL his values already.

I certainly think 1♦ with East is fine, as noted above, as long as that is your style.

The 1♥ overcall is perfectly normal. After that, is where the fun can start.

West has four reasonable options, one not mentioned yet.

• Double -- especially if this shows 4♠'s For me, dbl would show a club suit and deny spades.
• 1♠ this shows spades (for some people this shows 5+♠, for me only 4+
• 1NT perhaps the most descriptive "bid"
• Pass, No one has mentioned this one so far. Yet, with four strong hearts and four weak spades, pass makes a lot of sense. If partner who likely is short in hearts can not balanced back in, you probably don't want to be in the auction, and you have a good hand for defense.

Any of these should lead to EW playing either 2♦ or 3♣. For me, I can't double as that shows clubs and denies spades. I don't want to bid spades because the main feature of my hand is my strong hearts. So that leaves me with 1NT or pass. For me, I would try 1NT, but I feel like pass is not a bad bid with West either, and maybe the best bid with it. After 1NT, I think EW will play either 2♦ or 3♣.

[neilkaz]

If this is meant to be an ATB, South's 3♥ bid is worse than terribly bad. He has a min, his pd made a delayed raise, the opp bidding has done nothing to improve his hand, and has, IMO, made it worse. 3♥ so bad that I'd be barred from these forums if I used justified language to describe it.

[wank]

ArtK78, on 2013-June-10, 13:11, said:

Negative double by the partner of an overcaller? That is the first time I have heard of this. The double by North should show values, not spades (and, since North has values, the double is perfectly reasonable).

Stating that the double by North is negative is more wishful thinking than normal bridge, since the negative double uncovers the spade fit. It is unusual for South to have both majors since South neither doubled the 1♦ opening nor bid Michaels.

Characterizing East's bid as a "run to 2♣" is a little pejorative, as he has 5-5. I would better describe the bid as showing his hand. If I were East, I might bid a 3rd club when the bidding came back to me.

well this is a good demonstration of why double as takeout is the better way to play. as far as i'm concerned it's also fairly standard rahter than 'wishful thinking'.