[Free]

I let my computer create some hands to test slam bidding with my partner (north has a strong 1♣ opening, and together NS's strength is at least close to slam). This however is a hand where we didn't find the best contract, and I wonder if it would still be good enough (in any type of scoring)...

---

Where do you and your partner end up?

BTW: I let the EW hands out to not let you guys get influenced

[Fluffy]

This hand is a mess for me, can't find any sensible way to ask about ♣J on my system, not a way for south to ask for keycards, so I will end with a wild guess into 6 or 7 on any minor, after 2♣-3♣ and some bids that give not much info, I think 7♣ will be the final guess because a 7th♣ is also possible appart from ♣J.

[joker_gib]

I will end up in 7NT

[whereagles]

2C 2D
3D 3NT
4D 5C
6D

Something like this, I guess.

[FrancesHinden]

With my rose-tinted bidding spectacles on

2C - 2D
3D - 4C
4S - 6C
7C

If responder had KQJ10xx of clubs I would expect to have this auction at the table.
With KQJ9xx the 6C bid is possibly dubious, but 5C seems very weedy.

[Free]

FrancesHinden, on Jan 6 2005, 03:28 PM, said:

With my rose-tinted bidding spectacles on

2C -  2D
3D -  4C
4S -  6C
7C

If responder had KQJ10xx of clubs I would expect to have this auction at the table.
With KQJ9xx the 6C bid is possibly dubious, but 5C seems very weedy.

So you're ready to play 6♣ with KQJ975 opposite a void??? I'm 100% sure this bidding would NEVER happen at the table without seeing both hands, so please, keep it at least a bit realistic... Take 2 Aces away from North and you're down like hell!

[sceptic]

how about

2C 2D (waiting)
2H (kokish relay to 2 spades) 2S (forced response)
4NT (28-29) 7C (to play)

[sceptic]

maybe 7C is a wild stab in the dark, but I am sure that there is a structure after 4NT to find right contract (I just dont know it)

[sceptic]

and I have used this whilst playing and I have bid 4NT and I screwed up the continuation (thats why I dont play it any more) but as I learn I may play it again as it is cool convention I think

[inquiry]

Free, on Jan 6 2005, 07:25 AM, said:

I let my computer create some hands to test slam bidding with my partner (north has a strong 1♣ opening, and together NS's strength is at least close to slam). This however is a hand where we didn't find the best contract, and I wonder if it would still be good enough (in any type of scoring)...

---

Where do you and your partner end up?

BTW: I let the EW hands out to not let you guys get influenced

Nothing could be easier....

2♣ - 3♣
5NT - 7♣
Pass

Looks too easy?

2♣ = forcing
3♣ = suit KJ9xxx (or 7), AJ9xxx (or 7), AKJxxx, KQxxxx, or better... (but not solid suit, which is 2NT response, so not AKQJxx)....
5NT = Grand slam force within the contect of the meaning of 3♣, if only interested in KQ of clubs, can use 4NT. So looking for quality of the "semi-solid" suit.
7♣ = KQJ, don't get any better than that.

The method of responding to 2♣ I use Chris Ryal's paradox-based responding scheme.... see http://www.cavendish...e/two/clubs.htm

[joker_gib]

Pls let's be back to reality

How is it possible not to play 7NT if you don't see both hands

36 HCP ! All aces and kings ! two 6 cards suit and no fit !

Are you serious all ???

[Cascade]

Strictly the south hand is not good enough for a positive in my methods and I am not sure were we would end after the auction starts 2♣ 2♦ ...

2♣ 2♦
3♠ four spades and five or more diamonds
3NT maybe - 4♣ might be better
??? the auction could take many turns from here but I don't see us ending in 7♣.

If South upgrades to a positive (not unreasonable) then I think we will find 7♣...

2♣ 3♣ clubs at least KJ or A
3♦ Asking for a 4-card major
4♣ No and good clubs - we are virtually committed to at least 4NT after the positive
7♣ this seems safest here - maybe we would ask for key-cards

Curiously this hand might be easier if South dealer and opens 3♣ although there might still be difficulty in determining the solidity of the club suit.

[Cascade]

joker_gib, on Jan 7 2005, 05:04 AM, said:

How is it possible not to play 7NT if you don't see both hands

North looks at his hand and sees that there might be entry problems to partner's clubs.

The key to the hand is establishing the solidity of the club suit or finding partner with the ♦J or a fit.

[Free]

joker_gib, on Jan 6 2005, 05:04 PM, said:

Pls let's be back to reality

How is it possible not to play 7NT if you don't see both hands

36 HCP ! All aces and kings ! two 6 cards suit and no fit !

Are you serious all ??? 

The fact that you have no real fit is an extra reason to play in ♣, so you can use your partner's hand as well to get to 13 tricks. If ♠ or ♦ don't run, and you don't find any J in one of these suits in partner's hand, you'll be stuck at your own hand while 7♣ might be available.

I don't see any reason in playing ♦, but 7♣ is definetly safer than 7NT on the current layout. Difficulty is to find out if you have 7NT or 7♣, or not even grand For once J's are important.

I like Ben's auction, as simple as it can get if you consider the South hand as positive over 2♣, and you found a safe contract. In MP's however you might run against a bottom, but I didn't specify a score-method so I don't blame you

[Gerben47]

My try:

Pass (0 - 8 or 16+) - 2♣ (Club positive)
2♦ (nat. GF) - 3♣ (Nothing to bid)
4♣ (RKC) - 4♦ (1)
4♥ - 5♥ (Q but no K)
5NT (Try for 7) - 6♣ (nothing outside clubs)
7♣ (KQxxxx and nothing else is not a positive)

Precision: 1♣ - 2♣ then the same.
2/1: 2♣ - 3♣ then same.

[inquiry]

joker_gib, on Jan 6 2005, 12:04 PM, said:

Pls let's be back to reality

How is it possible not to play 7NT if you don't see both hands

36 HCP ! All aces and kings ! two 6 cards suit and no fit !

Are you serious all ???

I can play 7!Cs (from the side with the singleton no less) because partner promised me KQJxxx or better in clubs. The gods sometimes will give him a jack or two but that is about all extra. If he has no side jack or only a heart side jack, how am I suppose to get to his running club suit. Give me Ax of clubs, and I bid 7NT in a flash, but being locked away from 5 or more potential club tricks would sway me.....

no doubt the full hand is five-one club split and spades 3-3 and diamonds 3-3 so 7NT rolls, but I rather take my chances on 4-2 or 3-3 club split.

Ben

[HeartA]

joker_gib, on Jan 6 2005, 11:04 AM, said:

Pls let's be back to reality

How is it possible not to play 7NT if you don't see both hands

36 HCP ! All aces and kings ! two 6 cards suit and no fit !

Are you serious all ???

7NT, never! Where is the entry to South's hand?

[luis]

This is my auction:

1c (16+)
1d(0-7 or 12+)
1h (Natural or 19+)
1s (0-4 or 5-7 Unbalanced)
2d (Game forcing hand)
3c (Natural Unbalanced 5-7)
3d (relay)
4c (No side suit)
4N (RKCB in clubs)
5c (One)
5d (Queen?)
7c (Yes and Solid clubs, no side king or queen)

[Free]

Here's the full hand:

---

So 7NT -1 and 7♣ just made. (so your predictions about the suits splitting were wrong Ben )

[MarceldB]

Cascade, on Jan 6 2005, 06:37 PM, said:

North looks at his hand and sees that there might be entry problems to partner's clubs.

The key to the hand is establishing the solidity of the club suit or finding partner with the ♦J or a fit.

And if finding Jack♦ will you be happy with a ♦ lead in 7NT? I prefer knowing Jack♠

Maybe it could not be appreciated perhaps to give underneath my bidding sequence in a HUM. But apart of the other aspects of a WOS, such hands are really a piece of cake ;-) frankly spoken

so if you will still permit me:

Pass= 13+ any shape
-2♣= 6-11p. s/void ♦, longest suit=♣ OR a 4441, 5?441 (points can be 1 Ace only or a King + any Queen too!)
2♦= relay
-2S= 1-suiter♣ 6331, 7321 or 7330
2NT= relay
-3♣= 6-9p. 6331 or 7321
3♦=relay
-3♥= 3-3-1-6
3♠= SLam Asking Bid, ♣ is trump (for the present)
-4♦= 1 Ace of 5 + Q♣
4♥= Suit asking Bid ♥
-4♠= non but or KQ♥ not possible re the 6-9p.
4NT= SAB♠
-5♣= non but or KQ♠ not possible re the 6-9p.
5♦= SAB ♦
-5♥= no A/K/Q♦
5♠= scan Jacks, start with ♣
-6♦= Jack♣+Jack♥, no Jack♠
7 ♣
-Pass

note: Jack procedure in this SLAB method is that after all SAB's the next bids -if not a six-bid - is Jack scanning (in- or excluding the trump suit)
Or after a Slab or SAB the first free bid. Is here after 4♦ the 5♥ bid,so meaning the same: scan Jacks start with ♣. Above sequence just to show you the SAB mechanism.
I prefer here the direct 5♥ bid because f.e. in case of no J♣ you gain a needed one more step for investigating furtheron. Or even more steps in case the Q♥ is there.

(Spiral scan method can be used as well in this system by the way, in two stages of the sequence and ending with the 6♦ bid too for the same information)