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Distribution Points

#1 User is offline   Rafi 

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Posted 2003-March-16, 04:36

  What is in your opinion the best way to count
  Distribution Points.
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#2 User is offline   oldfogey 

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Posted 2003-March-16, 05:12

My method is:-

Before pd has bid, count 1 each for 5th and 6th cards in a suit;   2 each for cards beyond the 6th.    Nothing for shortages.

When supporting pds suit, still count for length, but add points for shortages:  1 for xx, 2 for x, 3 for void.

I believe this comes to the same as the 1,3,5 count, but is more reliable.  

oldfogey
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#3 User is offline   oldfogey 

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Posted 2003-March-16, 05:13

My method is:-

Before pd has bid, count 1 each for 5th and 6th cards in a suit;   2 each for cards beyond the 6th.    Nothing for shortages.

When supporting pds suit, still count for length, but add points for shortages:  1 for xx, 2 for x, 3 for void.

I believe this comes to the same as the 1,3,5 count, but is more reliable.  

oldfogey
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#4 User is offline   oldfogey 

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Posted 2003-March-16, 05:13

My method is:-

Before pd has bid, count 1 each for 5th and 6th cards in a suit;   2 each for cards beyond the 6th.    Nothing for shortages.

When supporting pds suit, still count for length, but add points for shortages:  1 for xx, 2 for x, 3 for void.

I believe this comes to the same as the 1,3,5 count, but is more reliable.  

oldfogey
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#5 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2003-April-15, 09:34

Count for opening

I use the RULE of 20.... to decide if I open the bidding. This rule is fairly simple. Count your high card points on the 4,3,2,1 scale. Then add 1 point for each card in your two longer suits. If you are 4-4-3-2 or 4-4-4-1 that is 8 extra points. You also get eight additional points if you are 5-3-3-2. A 5-4-2-2 and 5-4-3-1 pattern gets 9 points, etc.

Now, I recommend some adjustments to this scale, and after the adjustments, I always open with 21 and usually open with 20. The adjustements I use are:

Subtractions.
 -1 point for each singleton K, Q, or J
 -1 point for each doubleton or Queen or Jack (or KQ, KJ doubleton)

Additions
 +1 point for both TENS in my two long suits, or
 +1 point for T in one suit and 98 in the other long suit

Special notice
 Donot open rule of 20 hand on 20 or 21 points if your long suit is xxxxx or Jxxxx. And with 20 point, look for additional reason to before you open with a long suit headed by Qxxxx, Kxxxx, or Axxxx.

Count for responding
I use nothing special here, generally following the very old fashion Goren count when supporting partner's suit.... 5 point for a void, 3 points for a singleton, and 1 point for doubleton. Once again subtractions come into play. Things that are not good are 3 card support, 4-3-3-3 distrubution (no point additions anyway), poor honor placement and the like. But for me, support these days has more to do with the law of total tricks than exact point count anyway.
--Ben--

#6 User is offline   pbleighton 

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Posted 2003-April-15, 13:19

"Count for responding
I use nothing special here, generally following the very old fashion Goren count when supporting partner's suit.... 5 point for a void, 3 points for a singleton, and 1 point for doubleton. Once again subtractions come into play. Things that are not good are 3 card support, 4-3-3-3 distrubution (no point additions anyway), poor honor placement and the like. But for me, support these days has more to do with the law of total tricks than exact point count anyway. "

If not supporting partner's suit, do you count for length and/or subtract for singleton or void in partner's 5 card major?
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#7 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2003-April-16, 02:25

If not supporting partner's suit, do you count for length and/or subtract for singleton or void in partner's 5 card major?

Well, here is a word of advice. Tread very softly on misfit. That is with misfit, tend to underbid (take the more conservative action), with fits and big fits, bid more aggressively. If you define this generalization as adding and subtracting points, then ok.... add point with a fit and subtract points with a misfit. I never count short suit points unless raising partner, and I do add points for extra length in my own suits, along the lines suggested by oldfogey in his response(s) to this thread. I don't start adding two points for extra cards beyond six however.
--Ben--

#8 User is offline   Cave_Draco 

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Posted 2003-April-17, 07:17

Interesting...

I don't actually count distribution points at all!

The Milton Work count only works for balanced & semi-balanced hands. If I have distribution, or Partner announces distribution, I use Losing Trick Count.

IMO, LTC & TNT give a better guide on distributional hands,  :).
"I know that there is only one power worth having. That is the power, not to take, but to accept; not to have, but to give."
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#9 User is offline   Yzerman 

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Posted 2003-May-07, 13:21

I agree with Draco on this subject.  I have NEVER added or subracted points based on distributional value.  The following are my guidelines;

a) LTC (Counting winners for NT and loser for suits)
:) Hand Evaluation/Judgement
c) Trust in partners bidding
d) Overbid good trump/Underbid bad trumps
e) Overbid good suits/Underbid bad suits
f) Discount hands with shortness in partners primary

All in all, of the above (:) is by far the most important, however © is very important as well the rest can be learned by from experience BUT you MUST exercise good judgement and have faith in your partners judgement.
MAL
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#10 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2003-May-08, 06:12

Quote

I agree with Draco on this subject.  I have NEVER added or subracted points based on distributional value.  The following are my guidelines;

a) LTC (Counting winners for NT and loser for suits)
:) Hand Evaluation/Judgement
c) Trust in partners bidding
d) Overbid good trump/Underbid bad trumps
e) Overbid good suits/Underbid bad suits
f) Discount hands with shortness in partners primary

All in all, of the above (:) is by far the most important, however © is very important as well the rest can be learned by from experience BUT you MUST exercise good judgement and have faith in your partners judgement.


While you don't added or subtracted points based upon distributional value "per se", it is clear you consider such factors. You "discount hands" with shortness in partners suit. That is the same as subtracting points. You use LTC which takes into count in an odd way distribution. Long suits with "x's" have less losers than balanced hands were the x's are split between four suit. And finally you use "hand/evaluation and judgement" which you characterize as most important.

Embodied in hand evaluation and judgement is a lot of fine adjustments. Hands that are 4-3-3-3 are usually treaded on more lightly especially when raising partner. The offensive/defensive ratio of the hand will effect your decision in a competitive auction. The more offensive potential a hand has, the more likely you are to bid on, the more defensive potential the hand has, the more likely you are to "sell out." Part of this embodies the concept of the law of total tricks, part location of honors, and is a way, short suits and which suits are short.

Having said that. I "count" distributional "points" only when deciding whether or not to open a hand that is very close to pass/bid, where I apply rule of 20.  For the rest, I use LOTT, and Offensive/defensive ratio of my hand to decide how to continue.  This is your "overbid with good trump" = good offense. "under bid with bad trumps" = poor offense, and usually point therefore in other suits = good defense. Same with good/bad suit. And finally, shortness in partners suit is generally bad for offense and good for defense. Likewise 4-3-3-3 patterns are bad for offense and better for defense. Thus checking ODR (offense to defense ratio) is shorthand for lot of what you expressed. The trick is learning to identify which hands have high ODR and which low.

Ben
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