[yokogeri]

Hello.

I would like to find a system that combine something similar to the following structure :

1C Strong
1D/H/S Natural
1NT Weak (12-14)
2C Weak 5/5 or 5/4 Spades+Hearts (8-10 pts)
2D Multi Diamond (Weak 6 Major or 20-21 balanced or strong 6 major)
2H Weak 5/5 or 5/4 Hearts+Minor(8-10 pts)
2S Weak 5/5 or 5/4 Spades+Minor (8-10 pts)
2NT Weak 5/5 or 5/4 Clubs+Diamonds (8-10 pts)

Do you know something similar to this ?

Thanks.

[Vampyr]

It seems as if you have the basics of your system already. I am wondering how you are going to treat your 15-19 balanced hands? Opening 1♣ with 15 balanced is pretty low. Perhaps you could include the lower end of these in your 1♦ opening.

I am not sure you need to include strong hands in your Multi. Perhaps take those out and substitute something awkward like medium 4-4-4-1s.

[PhilKing]

It looks like everything is covered, as long as you never have clubs or a balanced hand.

[Vampyr]

PhilKing, on 2013-April-07, 15:47, said:

It looks like everything is covered, as long as you never have clubs.

Maybe put that into the 1♦ opening?

[PhilKing]

Vampyr, on 2013-April-07, 15:49, said:

Maybe put that into the 1♦ opening?

Then it's not a natural diamond.

[yokogeri]

PhilKing, on 2013-April-07, 15:47, said:

It looks like everything is covered, as long as you never have clubs or a balanced hand.

Nice point.

An adjustament could be made: the weak 5/5 majors can be described with 2H (2H opening = weak 5H/Other). This allow 2C opening to be standard strong.
1C opening becomes natural.
1NT opening decreases to 10-12 pts when no vulnerable. If vulnerable, 1NT is 12-14.
Balanced 12-14 is described by 1NT rebid after 1C opening when no vulnerable. (if vulnerable this must be 15-17)
Balanced 15-17 is described by 1NT rebid after 1D opening when no vulnerable

Summary :
1C Natural or balanced 12-14 no vulnerable (open 1C followed by 1NT ) or balanced 15-17 vulnerable (open 1C followed by 1NT)
1D Natural or balanced 15-17 if no vulnerable (open 1D followed by 1NT)
1H/1S Natural
1NT Weak balanced (10-12 no vulnerable ; 12-14 vulnerable)
2C Strong 23+
2D Multi (Weak 6 Major or 20-22 balanced or 4-4-4-1)
2H Weak Hearts+Other(8-10 pts no vulnerable, 10-12 vulnerable)
2S Weak Spades+Minor (8-10 pts no vulnerable, 10-12 vulnerable)
2NT Weak Clubs+Diamonds (8-10 pts no vulnerable, 10-12 vulnerable)

Any thoughts about this approach ? Does exist any system similar? I would like to read the developments of it .. i can't risk do it my own ! :-)

[Vampyr]

yokogeri, on 2013-April-07, 16:54, said:

Summary :
1C Natural or balanced 12-14 no vulnerable (open 1C followed by 1NT ) or balanced 15-17 vulnerable (open 1C followed by 1NT)
1D Natural or balanced 15-17 if no vulnerable (open 1D followed by 1NT)
1H/1S Natural
1NT Weak balanced (10-12 no vulnerable ; 12-14 vulnerable)
2C Strong 23+
2D Multi (Weak 6 Major or 20-22 balanced or 4-4-4-1)
2H Weak Hearts+Other(8-10 pts no vulnerable, 10-12 vulnerable)
2S Weak Spades+Minor (8-10 pts no vulnerable, 10-12 vulnerable)
2NT Weak Clubs+Diamonds (8-10 pts no vulnerable, 10-12 vulnerable)

Any thoughts about this approach ? Does exist any system similar? I would like to read the developments of it .. i can't risk do it my own ! :-)

This is more-or-less Acol with a Multi. I suppose you could read up on Acol, but it seems that with a system such as this you just need standard developments.

[Cyberyeti]

yokogeri, on 2013-April-07, 16:54, said:

Nice point.

An adjustament could be made: the weak 5/5 majors can be described with 2H (2H opening = weak 5H/Other). This allow 2C opening to be standard strong.
1C opening becomes natural.
1NT opening decreases to 10-12 pts when no vulnerable. If vulnerable, 1NT is 12-14.
Balanced 12-14 is described by 1NT rebid after 1C opening when no vulnerable. (if vulnerable this must be 15-17)
Balanced 15-17 is described by 1NT rebid after 1D opening when no vulnerable

Summary :
1C Natural or balanced 12-14 no vulnerable (open 1C followed by 1NT ) or balanced 15-17 vulnerable (open 1C followed by 1NT)
1D Natural or balanced 15-17 if no vulnerable (open 1D followed by 1NT)
1H/1S Natural
1NT Weak balanced (10-12 no vulnerable ; 12-14 vulnerable)
2C Strong 23+
2D Multi (Weak 6 Major or 20-22 balanced or 4-4-4-1)
2H Weak Hearts+Other(8-10 pts no vulnerable, 10-12 vulnerable)
2S Weak Spades+Minor (8-10 pts no vulnerable, 10-12 vulnerable)
2NT Weak Clubs+Diamonds (8-10 pts no vulnerable, 10-12 vulnerable)

Any thoughts about this approach ? Does exist any system similar? I would like to read the developments of it .. i can't risk do it my own ! :-)

I quite enjoyed a variant of this where we played the club forcing and included bigger balanced in it, then played the 1N opener as 18+ and unbalanced with 1♦/M limited.

[Zelandakh]

What you have is not far off my system except that you are requiring the 2♣ opening for the majors, whereas it should be obvious from your other requirements that it needs to show clubs. The alternative would be to make the 1♦ opening nebulous and include the weak club-based hands here. For reference, the opening bids are:

1♣ = 15+ nat/bal or 18+ any
1♦ = max 17, 4+ diamonds, unbal
1M = max 17, 5+ suit, unbal
1NT = (11)12-14, bal or 4414
2♣ = max 14, 6+ clubs or 5♣4M

There is no problem with the 1♣ opening starting at 15 - several systems use this and when the only 15-17 hands are balanced or clubs then you are ahead of some of them. On the other hand, including weak club-based hands here is problematic. The closest I can think of to that is UAC but even there a natural 2♣ opening is used. As above, a better way of reclaiming the 2♣ opening would be to throw these hands into 1♦ but that has its own issues. One other idea that floats around on these forums sometimes is to pass minimum club openers. One of the regular posters has a system based on this concept and can probably fill you in on how that works. It would not be my personal recommendation though.

[Free]

Sounds like you're looking for a "real diamond precision" type of system. It's easy with a weak NT and a 15+ strong ♣, but you need some bid to show ♣s!

Not sure what's wrong with the non-natural forum though...

[lexlogan]

yokogeri, on 2013-April-07, 14:49, said:

Hello.

I would like to find a system that combine something similar to the following structure :

1C Strong
1D/H/S Natural
1NT Weak (12-14)
2C Weak 5/5 or 5/4 Spades+Hearts (8-10 pts)
2D Multi Diamond (Weak 6 Major or 20-21 balanced or strong 6 major)
2H Weak 5/5 or 5/4 Hearts+Minor(8-10 pts)
2S Weak 5/5 or 5/4 Spades+Minor (8-10 pts)
2NT Weak 5/5 or 5/4 Clubs+Diamonds (8-10 pts)

Do you know something similar to this ?

Thanks.

Playing 1♦, 1♥ and 1♠ as 4+ (which is why I assume this is in the Natural forum), you can open 1NT with 4 or 5 clubs and 2♣ with 6+. That simply requires you to pass with 10-11 and 3334 or 3325 shape where your only long suit is clubs. Nothing wrong with that; you could include 11-point 3325's in 1NT, but I suspect passing will work better, especially if you allow, say, a passed-hand 1NT to show this shape, or a 2C reply to partner's opening. If you allow 4-card major responses to 1C (game-forcing with 9+ hcp or perhaps 8+ with extra length) you have a very natural, playable system.