[kgr]

This is what I found in an old document (1990) of Claudio Petroncini and Giorgio Belladonna:

Quote

Repeating one’s cue-bid that had not specified the type of control or making a cue-bid in a suit skipped by partner confirms 1st-round control in the suit

Quote

Skipping a suit, in which the player has shown a control directly (with a cue-bid) or indirectly (continuing the dialogue despite partner have denied a control in the suit), specifies 2nd-round control only of the suit skipped

This is quoted from another old post of me.
This question popped up again with a new partner:

1)
1NT-2H EDIT: changed 2D to 2H
3S-4C
4D-4H
5D
=> 4C till 5D are cues after S-fit is set by 3S.
- Should 5D promise ♦AK or can it be bid with only ♦A?

2)
(1H)-Pass-DBL
2NT-3D
3S-4H
5C-5H
6C
=> 3S is cue in support of D. 4H denies C-control and a good hand.
- 5C can be 2nd control, even Kx, because it is over opener?
- Should 6C promise ♣AK/♣-void <=> does only promise ♣A?

[gszes]

kgr, on 2013-March-28, 10:56, said:

This is what I found in an old document (1990) of Claudio Petroncini and Giorgio Belladonna:


This is quoted from another old post of me.
This question popped up again with a new partner:

1)
1NT-2D
3S-4C
4D-4H
5D
=> 4C till 5D are cues after S-fit is set by 3S.
- Should 5D promise ♦AK or can it be bid with only ♦A?

2)
(1H)-Pass-DBL
2NT-3D
3S-4H
5C-5H
6C
=> 3S is cue in support of D. 4H denies C-control and a good hand.
- 5C can be 2nd control, even Kx, because it is over opener?
- Should 6C promise ♣AK/♣-void <=> does only promise ♣A?

We would all like to trust you on your explanations but always include the meaning of
bids since what you dont bid is just as important as what you bid. Hand 1 why does
3s set spades as trumps?? what is it about the 2d bid that allows for a 3s bid from
the 1n opener.



hand 2 the beginning auction of 1h p x makes no sense and as a consequence the rest of
the bidding makes no sense. I rarely vote down posts but please try and be more careful
with your questions and examples -1

[PhilKing]

The answer is "it depends". If you play Neopolitan style cue bids (first and second round controls bid strictly up the line), you need a way of clarifying what you hold. The modern Italian way of doing this is to use "Turbo". Then the 1NT opener in your first auction promises an odd number of key cards when he bids 5♦ (or anything else that by-passes 4NT), presumably the AK of trumps and the A of diamonds in this instance. With an even number of key cards he has to bid 4NT. In theory, Turbo is supposed to make it clear whether your control is the ace or king, so a 5♦ cue would show first and second round control, presumably the king.

I presume that Belladonna did not play 4NT that way, although he did play it as a form of DI with Garozzo (who I believe invented Turbo), or maybe he just ditched Turbo, so his solution may be different.

[mike777]

It's not the handling of difficult hands that makes the winning player. There aren't enough of them. It's the ability to avoid messing up the easy ones.
-S. J. Simon

[kgr]

gszes, on 2013-March-28, 17:08, said:

We would all like to trust you on your explanations but always include the meaning of
bids since what you dont bid is just as important as what you bid. Hand 1 why does
3s set spades as trumps?? what is it about the 2d bid that allows for a 3s bid from
the 1n opener.

Thanks for mentioning. I changed 2D to 2H

gszes, on 2013-March-28, 17:08, said:

hand 2 the beginning auction of 1h p x makes no sense and as a consequence the rest of
the bidding makes no sense.

(1H)-Pas-DBL
The bid between brackets is a bid from the opps. No more brackets later means that the opps do not bid anymore.

gszes, on 2013-March-28, 17:08, said:

I rarely vote down posts but please try and be more careful
with your questions and examples -1

[kgr]

PhilKing, on 2013-March-28, 17:22, said:

The answer is "it depends". If you play Neopolitan style cue bids (first and second round controls bid strictly up the line), you need a way of clarifying what you hold. The modern Italian way of doing this is to use "Turbo". Then the 1NT opener in your first auction promises an odd number of key cards when he bids 5♦ (or anything else that by-passes 4NT), presumably the AK of trumps and the A of diamonds in this instance. With an even number of key cards he has to bid 4NT. In theory, Turbo is supposed to make it clear whether your control is the ace or king, so a 5♦ cue would show first and second round control, presumably the king.

I presume that Belladonna did not play 4NT that way, although he did play it as a form of DI with Garozzo (who I believe invented Turbo), or maybe he just ditched Turbo, so his solution may be different.

We don't play Turbo...Do you think it is best then if the repeated cue shows first control or 1st and 2nd?

[PhilKing]

kgr, on 2013-March-29, 03:34, said:

We don't play Turbo...Do you think it is best then if the repeated cue shows first control or 1st and 2nd?

First and second.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Hand 1

1NT - 2H! ( transfer )
3S - 4C
4D - 4H
5D

5D should now show A and K as well as deny a ♣-Ctrl

[ I'm not going to question why RKC was not used after 3 Ctrl-cues ... one in each side suit ... but going past 4NT with another Ctrl-cue I think should impart some meaning regarding the trump suit ] .