This has bitten me several times already. In the 2/1 Game Force system I play, 2 clubs over 1 diamond is forcing to game. Robots keep passing me on the second round of bidding however. I finally found this tidbit in the GIB card:
"2C response is forcing to one round, but not game force.".
Nice to know that finally, but it would be nicer if the bid tip when you hover over the 2 club bid said that
instead of "Forcing two over one -- 11+ HCP; Biddable C".
Also, the card should have some indication of 2/1 only over the majors under "General Approach".
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2 /1 Game Force card is misleading The 2 club bid over 1 diamond is only a 1 rd force
#2
Posted 2013-March-01, 20:46
p_t_red, on 2013-March-01, 14:45, said:
"Forcing two over one -- 11+ HCP; Biddable C".
There was a thread about this recently. In general bridge parlance, "forcing" means forcing for one round.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
#3
Posted 2013-March-04, 10:20
Unfortunately, that's what 2/1 game force means - over a major.
Originally it was major to minor only; 1♠-2♥ was also only a 1R Force, showing 10+ and 5+hearts. Very few people play that any more.
However, the minors are a different story; for some reason people in my area too want 1♦-2♣ to be a GF (as well as 1♦-2♦) meaning they have no bid with 6 diamonds and 2 points, or a 3=2=4=4 6 count they don't want to bid 1NT on - or, of course, a 3=1=4=5 or 3=1=3=6 or 2=2=3=6 10, 11 count (if you would promote that into a GF, drop it a point or so until it fits).
All I'm saying here is that the fact that GIB plays an older, (to my mind saner) 2/1 system that meets the traditional definitions is unsurprising. It's unfortunate it caught the OP.
Originally it was major to minor only; 1♠-2♥ was also only a 1R Force, showing 10+ and 5+hearts. Very few people play that any more.
However, the minors are a different story; for some reason people in my area too want 1♦-2♣ to be a GF (as well as 1♦-2♦) meaning they have no bid with 6 diamonds and 2 points, or a 3=2=4=4 6 count they don't want to bid 1NT on - or, of course, a 3=1=4=5 or 3=1=3=6 or 2=2=3=6 10, 11 count (if you would promote that into a GF, drop it a point or so until it fits).
All I'm saying here is that the fact that GIB plays an older, (to my mind saner) 2/1 system that meets the traditional definitions is unsurprising. It's unfortunate it caught the OP.
"Do you hear it?" -- Molly Conger
#4
Posted 2013-March-04, 21:27
I am from the same camp as mycroft: "2/1" traditionally applied only over the majors, and playing 1D-2C was a common newbie error -- which has become an occasional deliberate system choice recently.
1D-2C GF is recommended by the Grant and Rodwell book - likely as a simplification to save them from having to teach a special set of rebids over 1D-2C - but not in any of the other standard 2/1 references that I recall.
1D-2C GF is recommended by the Grant and Rodwell book - likely as a simplification to save them from having to teach a special set of rebids over 1D-2C - but not in any of the other standard 2/1 references that I recall.
#5
Posted 2013-March-04, 21:47
The Lawrence 2/1 CD discusses both treatments. If memory serves it recommends the GF approach.
#6
Posted 2013-March-05, 08:18
i think if you play 1♦-2♣ GF you really need 1♦-3♣ as INV with 6♣ rather than usual weak jump-shift
Sarcasm is a state of mind
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