[Fluffy]

MPs, nobody vul

♠-
♥1094
♦AKQ83
♣J7632


you are dealer, you can open 1♦ or pass, it will go

??-(2♠)-pass-(4♠)
??

[Hanoi5]

If I open 1♦, I pass later. If I don´t open I'm tempted to bid 4NT (and I fall easily into temptation).

[the_clown]

I will pass and then X 4♠

[gnasher]

I open 1♦ and then pass. Opening 1♦ and then bidding again seems very unwise - we could easily go for 500 or more, and partner could have three trump tricks in 4♠.

[rmnka447]

I open 1 ♦ at MP -- it's a rule of 20 hand.

The second decision is a bit tactical. The danger is that you could easily go for -500 or more opposite a 420+ game. If I know the opponents and they're likely to take the push or are not likely to Dbl, then I'll bid 4 NT to try to find a landing spot. If the opponents are unknown to me or are strong players, I sit for 4 ♠.

[straube]

I'll open 1D and then pass.

[Zelandakh]

I am also opening 1♦ and passing.

[rhm]

gnasher, on 2013-February-03, 08:49, said:

I open 1♦ and then pass. Opening 1♦ and then bidding again seems very unwise - we could easily go for 500 or more, and partner could have three trump tricks in 4♠.

At Imps I would agree, though I am not particularly worried that partner has three trump tricks.

At MP only frequency matters.
Most of the time 4♠ will make and you will have a cheap save, most likely in a minor, and there is also the possibility that your side can make game after a likely spade lead.
In a few cases nobody can make anything or you will go for 500 or more.
Trouble with bidding 5♣ now (after having opened 1♦) is that partner will play you for a stronger hand.
He might raise or double 5♠.

I would pass but it is close at MP.

Rainer Herrmann

[Fluffy]

Just out of curiosity, there are 4 posters who advocate for 1♦ then pass, why do you quote Andy?

[rhm]

Fluffy, on 2013-February-04, 07:36, said:

Just out of curiosity, there are 4 posters who advocate for 1♦ then pass, why do you quote Andy?

Because I find Andy comments generally intriguing.

Rainer Herrmann

[Zelandakh]

5 if you include Hanoi, who covered both options in his post.

[gwnn]

Agree with gnasher, 1♦ then pass for me. If it had gone 2♠-p-4♠ (with or without my initial pass) I would bid 4NT.

BTW I have everyone except the current poster of the year on my ignore list, sorry if someone had already said this.

[MickyB]

I'd pass then dbl playing my methods [short diamond, so no advantage in bidding for the lead]. Not sure about playing standard, might well be tempted to bid my AKQxx at my first turn even though I tend to be fairly solid with my 1m openings...I'd certainly pass on the next round now.

[straube]

I think that most play 4S X as takeout and 4S (4N) as a 2-suited takeout.

I'm curious what's standard and what's best after 1D (2S) P (4S) because now you have 5C to show one of the two 2-suited possibilities (you've already shown diamonds). I would think...

dbl-values, penalty (after all, you could have the 18-19 balanced with
.....some defense, etc)
4N-3-suited takeout (likely void) or possibly 5H/6D
5C-minors

[gnasher]

straube, on 2013-February-04, 14:07, said:

I think that most play 4S X as takeout and 4S (4N) as a 2-suited takeout.

I'm curious what's standard and what's best after 1D (2S) P (4S) because now you have 5C to show one of the two 2-suited possibilities (you've already shown diamonds).

Double = takeout
4NT = 7-5 with clubs, or 5-6 with hearts
5♣ = natural, 5-5 or 6-5.

Quote

I would think...

dbl-values, penalty (after all, you could have the 18-19 balanced with
.....some defense, etc)
4N-3-suited takeout (likely void) or possibly 5H/6D
5C-minors

You need to be able to show a three-suiter without committing to the five-level, so as to retain the option of defending 4♠. Having to bid 4NT on those hands is very bad.

Showing a strong balanced hand is less important, because (a) it's a less common (b) it's less likely that you have a game game bonus to protect, and (c ) often you won't get rich from 4♠, because the suits are breaking, your spade honours are badly placed, and partner only gets to lead through dummy's strength once.

[straube]

gnasher, on 2013-February-04, 17:07, said:

Double = takeout
4NT = 7-5 with clubs, or 5-6 with hearts
5♣ = natural, 5-5 or 6-5.


You need to be able to show a three-suiter without committing to the five-level, so as to retain the option of defending 4♠. Having to bid 4NT on those hands is very bad.

Showing a strong balanced hand is less important, because (a) it's a less common (b) it's less likely that you have a game game bonus to protect, and (c ) often you won't get rich from 4♠, because the suits are breaking, your spade honours are badly placed, and partner only gets to lead through dummy's strength once.

That makes sense. Thanks

[aguahombre]

Fluffy, on 2013-February-04, 07:36, said:

Just out of curiosity, there are 4 posters who advocate for 1♦ then pass, why do you quote Andy?

Because, of the ones who provided any accompanying logic, his was the most cogent?

BTW: I am not often persuaded by the "rule of" arguments, and at my age I can't remember all the numbers following "rule of", anyway.

I do remember rule number 9 on NCIS, though. Always carry a knife. (Or is it Don't remarry the same woman?)

[bigbenvic]

Fluffy, on 2013-February-03, 04:21, said:

MPs, nobody vul

♠-
♥1094
♦AKQ83
♣J7632


you are dealer, you can open 1♦ or pass, it will go

??-(2♠)-pass-(4♠)
??

I will pass first time, I'd consider opening a wk minors but the concentration of values is too rich.
I would pass again as partner may not have much and -420 is better than 500 or 800 which seems possible.

If I knew my opponents and thought that they were 50% chance to bid 5♠ then I'd bid on but against randoms I'll pass.