[hrothgar]

Hi All

Quck note for anyone interested in learning MOSCITO...

The Dutch development team who support Jack have added a MOSCITO module for the Jack 3.0 release. Regretfully, as always MOSCITO is plagued by minor discrepancies between versions. With this said and done, the developer have created a great program and a wonderful tool for practicing the system...

Jack 3.0 will be shipping in late November

Richard

[DenisO]

That will make a nice Christmas present

I understand that Paul Marston collaborated with the Jack team. In a recent rgb post he indicated that Jack would be using the modern version which is "similar, but not the same as Richard Willey's notes"

Have you seen a pre-release version? I just wonder if the Moscito documentation will be adequate as Paul Marston's modern version doesn't seem to be available anywhere.

You were doing a major re-write of your system notes - how is that progressing?
It could be useful to define differences between Jack's version and your own.

[the hog]

Paul is currently producing a pamphlet on Jack's version of Moscito to coincide with Jack ver 3. I am seeing him this next week and can let interested parties know the progress of this.

[hrothgar]

DenisO, on Nov 12 2004, 09:51 AM, said:

That will make a nice Christmas present

I understand that Paul Marston collaborated with the Jack team. In a recent rgb post he indicated that Jack would be using the modern version which is "similar, but not the same as Richard Willey's notes"

Have you seen a pre-release version? I just wonder if the Moscito documentation will be adequate as Paul Marston's modern version doesn't seem to be available anywhere.

You were doing a major re-write of your system notes - how is that progressing?
It could be useful to define differences between Jack's version and your own.

I had the chance to play with the pre-release pretty extensively.
Nice solid program...

Paul is, indeed, producing a short piece to accompany the release.
Unfortunately, I haven't seen it yet.

Couple things caught me by surprise...

1. 5332 hand patterns have completed their journey from single suited patterns to balanced hands. In the weird old days, 5332 hands were consider single suited and resolved as part of the single suited resolution scheme. More recently, 5332 hands were considered as part of the balanced hand structure, but however, 5332s with 5 card majors weren't included as part of the 1NT opening. At this point in time, opening 1NT with 5332 hands is recommended.... Certainly makes life easier in a number of ways.

2. Suppose the auction starts

1S - 1N - 2C, where

1S = unbalanced with 4+♦
1NT = relay
2C = unbalanced with both minors

I had always used a 2D rebid as to play, with 2H as the relay continuation
Paul prefers to use 2D as a relay. As a result, he will on occasion jump to 3♦ with 3 card support

[MickyB]

hrothgar, on Nov 12 2004, 12:55 PM, said:

2.  Suppose the auction starts

1S - 1N - 2C, where

1S = unbalanced with 4+♦
1NT = relay
2C = unbalanced with both minors

I had always used a 2D rebid as to play, with 2H as the relay continuation
Paul prefers to use 2D as a relay.  As a result, he will on occasion jump to 3♦ with 3 card support

I find this a little strange, unless 1♠ - 2♦ is natural NF.

Thanks for the update, I will keep an eye out for the new version.

[bestguru]

Thanks hrothgar, I need all the bidding practice I can get.

If any body is looking for the web site:
http://www.jackbridge.com/eindex.htm

[EricK]

hrothgar, on Nov 12 2004, 12:55 PM, said:

I had the chance to play with the pre-release pretty extensively.
Nice solid program...

Did you think of Jack was making the right decisions about whether or not to relay on a hand?

Eric

[EarlPurple]

Jack can play Moscito but there is no way you can tell it what defence you are playing.

So you can play your defence to it, and Jack will just guess what your bids mean, explaining them for you. If Jack's explanations are wrong you have no way to correct it.

This is obviously likely to upset Jack's subsequent bidding plus any inferences it might be able to make in the play.

In addition, Jack has a similar weakness if you are playing an artificial opening bid system against it.

Jack does seem to also play extremely slowly at times with seemingly nothing to think about.

[hrothgar]

EarlPurple, on Dec 15 2004, 05:25 PM, said:

Jack can play Moscito but there is no way you can tell it what defence you are playing.

So you can play your defence to it, and Jack will just guess what your bids mean, explaining them for you. If Jack's explanations are wrong you have no way to correct it.

This is obviously likely to upset Jack's subsequent bidding plus any inferences it might be able to make in the play.

In addition, Jack has a similar weakness if you are playing an artificial opening bid system against it.

Jack does seem to also play extremely slowly at times with seemingly nothing to think about.

Personally, I use Jack to practice playing MOSCITO NOT to practice defending against MOSCITO.

There are any number of bidding systems / conventions that Jack does not currently support.

[DenisO]

EarlPurple, on Dec 15 2004, 02:25 PM, said:

Jack can play Moscito but there is no way you can tell it what defence you are playing.

Possibly you misunderstand the way you are supposed to use Jack. You cannot define your own bidding system nor your own defence to one of Jack's systems. You must always use one of Jack's predefined base systems - but you have a lot of choice in developing that system by adding whatever conventions you wish from Jack's large list.

To have a user defined bidding system or defence you would need to consider something like Oxford Bridge but the effort involved is tremendous and then you might find that Oxford is not such a good card player as Jack

Deniso

[EricK]

DenisO, on Dec 15 2004, 09:19 PM, said:

EarlPurple, on Dec 15 2004, 02:25 PM, said:

Jack can play Moscito but there is no way you can tell it what defence you are playing.

Possibly you misunderstand the way you are supposed to use Jack. You cannot define your own bidding system nor your own defence to one of Jack's systems. You must always use one of Jack's predefined base systems - but you have a lot of choice in developing that system by adding whatever conventions you wish from Jack's large list.

To have a user defined bidding system or defence you would need to consider something like Oxford Bridge but the effort involved is tremendous and then you might find that Oxford is not such a good card player as Jack

Deniso

How does it manage to cope in the world championship where presumably the other programs could have any system or defense etc?

Eric

[hrothgar]

EricK, on Dec 16 2004, 12:34 AM, said:

DenisO, on Dec 15 2004, 09:19 PM, said:

EarlPurple, on Dec 15 2004, 02:25 PM, said:

Jack can play Moscito but there is no way you can tell it what defence you are playing.

Possibly you misunderstand the way you are supposed to use Jack. You cannot define your own bidding system nor your own defence to one of Jack's systems. You must always use one of Jack's predefined base systems - but you have a lot of choice in developing that system by adding whatever conventions you wish from Jack's large list.

To have a user defined bidding system or defence you would need to consider something like Oxford Bridge but the effort involved is tremendous and then you might find that Oxford is not such a good card player as Jack

Deniso

How does it manage to cope in the world championship where presumably the other programs could have any system or defense etc?

Eric

Funny you should ask...

A few years back, the GIB designed wanted to take the program to the next level.
The implemented MOSCITO in GIB, used it during the Championship, and handily won. (It should be noted that at that time, GIB had always handily won the Championship)

This lead to a lot of ugly back and forth regarding systems regulations, disclosure mechaisms and the like. At the end of the day, the COmputer Bridge Championships decided to adopt rather Draconian systems regulations and Matt Ginsburg withdrew GIB from future competitions.

I'm not sure whether GIB and Jack have officially faced off in recent years...