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Advancing a 1S overcall Strong hand with no good bid

#1 User is offline   mfa1010 

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Posted 2013-January-15, 08:58

AQ
AQ98
J6
QJT72

(1) - 1 - (pass) - ?

None vul.

You have agreed to play transfer responses:
2 would show a heart suit, at least 5 cards.
2 would show 10+ with a 3-card fit.
2NT would show a 4-card fit.

What would you do?
Michael Askgaard
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#2 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2013-January-15, 09:00

2C, the bid you did not mention, ... unless it showes diamonds.
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#3 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2013-January-15, 09:04

2 obviously shows diamonds, and 2 looks like the obvious choice, althou 3NT might be more practical.
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#4 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2013-January-15, 09:18

3 NT
So, I have no way to force without a fit, but 2 , 2, 2 NT, 3, 4 and 4 as raises....
I know, everything is a nice to have, but maybe at least one cheap bid should show a good hand without a stopper... Or is it impossible to hold AQ, Qxxx,AQxx,xxx?- maybe even with one honour more or less....
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More system is not the answer...
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#5 User is offline   mfa1010 

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Posted 2013-January-15, 09:31

View PostCodo, on 2013-January-15, 09:18, said:

3 NT
So, I have no way to force without a fit, but 2 , 2, 2 NT, 3, 4 and 4 as raises....
I know, everything is a nice to have, but maybe at least one cheap bid should show a good hand without a stopper... Or is it impossible to hold AQ, Qxxx,AQxx,xxx?- maybe even with one honour more or less....

3, 3, 3 and 4 would also be raises in our system. :)

If you have any good suggestions about system I would love to hear them.
Michael Askgaard
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#6 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2013-January-15, 09:32

What's the range for pard's 1 overcall? He is likely to be near the bottom of the range.
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#7 User is offline   mfa1010 

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Posted 2013-January-15, 09:32

View PostFluffy, on 2013-January-15, 09:04, said:

2 obviously shows diamonds, and 2 looks like the obvious choice, althou 3NT might be more practical.

If you bid 2, then you'll get the expected 2 response. Then what?
Michael Askgaard
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#8 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2013-January-15, 09:35

Luckily these hands do not come up often, but I prefer 2 to 3NT. At least we have doubleton honour and locating a heart fit is still possible, which is the reason why I prefer it over 3NT. Of course, if you play a style where you double with 5-4 majors then bidding 3NT directly is more attractive.

(I play the same methods, except that when the 1 may be short we play 1NT is a transfer to clubs)
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#9 User is offline   mfa1010 

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Posted 2013-January-15, 09:35

View Postjogs, on 2013-January-15, 09:32, said:

What's the range for pard's 1 overcall? He is likely to be near the bottom of the range.

1 is normal, aggressive style. Like 8-17.
Michael Askgaard
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#10 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2013-January-15, 09:49

View Postmfa1010, on 2013-January-15, 09:31, said:

3, 3, 3 and 4 would also be raises in our system. :)

If you have any good suggestions about system I would love to hear them.

We play transfer as well, but the cue keeps its meaning, 2NT is transfer to whatever / the next
reasonable suit, it is sometimes a bit asymmetric.
This is not perfect, but at least you have a come on signal available, asking partner to tell more.
The downside, you loose the option to show a good raise with 4 card support.
If this is any better to current your structure, ..., depenps, matter of taste.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#11 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2013-January-15, 09:51

Since I dont have cue av., I would go with 2H, AQ is at least as good as xxx.

I will bid 3NT later, if partner showes some live, and he does not show any
live, if he merely bids 2S, which I will pass.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#12 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2013-January-15, 10:01

View Postmfa1010, on 2013-January-15, 09:32, said:

If you bid 2, then you'll get the expected 2 response. Then what?

3NT ... offering a choice of games

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I see Marlowe ( previous post ) had the same idea and posted it as I was slow typing .

This post has been edited by TWO4BRIDGE: 2013-January-15, 10:03

Don Stenmark
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"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

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#13 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2013-January-15, 10:07

I bid 1N transfer to clubs - not playing that ? you need a way of bidding clubs naturally.
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#14 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2013-January-15, 10:10

View PostCodo, on 2013-January-15, 09:18, said:

3 NT
So, I have no way to force without a fit, but 2 , 2, 2 NT, 3, 4 and 4 as raises....
I know, everything is a nice to have, but maybe at least one cheap bid should show a good hand without a stopper... Or is it impossible to hold AQ, Qxxx,AQxx,xxx?- maybe even with one honour more or less....

View Postmfa1010, on 2013-January-15, 09:31, said:

3, 3, 3 and 4 would also be raises in our system. :)

If you have any good suggestions about system I would love to hear them.

So in your system, after a 1 overcall, you have at least ten (!) raises, only two ways to reach NT, and seemingly no way at all to show a minor suit? Seems a little strange, but no apparent harm done, I just bash 3NT.
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#15 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2013-January-15, 10:56

View Postbillw55, on 2013-January-15, 10:10, said:

So in your system, after a 1 overcall, you have at least ten (!) raises.....

Many forum members have 13 after their side opens 1S. Seems like a downward step in the right direction :rolleyes:
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#16 User is offline   mfa1010 

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Posted 2013-January-15, 10:57

View PostCyberyeti, on 2013-January-15, 10:07, said:

I bid 1N transfer to clubs - not playing that ? you need a way of bidding clubs naturally.

I feel that giving up on a having natural 1NT is a much too big a price to pay for being able to show the opponent's opening suit naturally, even if 1 could be short.
So I'm not hooked on making that change. 1NT comes up a lot.
Michael Askgaard
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#17 User is offline   mfa1010 

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Posted 2013-January-15, 10:59

View Postbillw55, on 2013-January-15, 10:10, said:

So in your system, after a 1 overcall, you have at least ten (!) raises, only two ways to reach NT, and seemingly no way at all to show a minor suit? Seems a little strange, but no apparent harm done, I just bash 3NT.

I could bid 2 over 1 to show a diamond suit. It is only the enemy's opening suit, I can't show.
Michael Askgaard
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#18 User is offline   lalldonn 

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Posted 2013-January-15, 11:09

I would bid 3NT. Partner can pull with extra shape and I don't see a great alternative. If I bid 2 then I will just end up bidding 3NT next anyway so in that case why show support I don't have?

Although this hand is probably too good anyway, I hate not having a natural 2NT bid here. The overcall range is so wide that I think you need it. You will be completely screwed on hands that wanted to make that bid if it's not available. If it was available I might even do it since partner will pass my 3NT on some hands with six spades or four hearts where he would bid over 2NT.
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#19 User is offline   mfa1010 

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Posted 2013-January-15, 11:28

View Postlalldonn, on 2013-January-15, 11:09, said:

Although this hand is probably too good anyway, I hate not having a natural 2NT bid here. The overcall range is so wide that I think you need it. You will be completely screwed on hands that wanted to make that bid if it's not available. If it was available I might even do it since partner will pass my 3NT on some hands with six spades or four hearts where he would bid over 2NT.

That's a good point. We play 2NT as 10+ with 4 card fit and 3 as a mixed raise. 3 and 3 are fit bids that never seem to come up anyway. Maybe it is better to rotate some of the bids so there will be room for a natural 2N.
In the club last Thursday, I had: -, QJT7, AT985, AKT8. Here the bidding went (1)-1-(pass), and I was screwed also. NV vs V I tried 1N, which worked out ok but didn't have to.
Michael Askgaard
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#20 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2013-January-15, 11:35

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"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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