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Should this 1nt be downgraded?

#1 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2004-December-08, 00:34

[FONT=Courier]
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 Pass  Pass  Pass  ?


Playing IMPS, NV. This does not look like a great 1nt after p-p-p, should I open 1♦?
My thinking...if I open 1♦ we will probably play 1nt or 2♦. If I open 1nt and p has 4M we will end up in 2nt, does it really matter?

tyia
jillybean
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
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#2 User is offline   keylime 

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Posted 2004-December-08, 00:38

Definitely 1NT. We have seven controls (three aces times two, plus our king), two tens that cancel out the flattish shape, and with any major transfer, we've got good fit. I like it.
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#3 User is offline   nikos59 

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Posted 2004-December-08, 01:10

Not at all. Three aces is a definite plus.

nikos
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#4 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2004-December-08, 01:20

1NT is fine.

The big loss from opening 1♦ is if partner turns up with something like a 9 point 5431 hand where you want to be in 4M. Not easy to reach after 1♦ 1M 1NT.

Also, the opps are unlikley to have a very long suit once they have both passed, so even if partner is weak in one of your suits you will have good chances to make 1NT (or 2NT if partner has some strength)

Bidding is very easy if you have a bid which tells partner almost everything about your hand!

Eric
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#5 User is offline   joker_gib 

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Posted 2004-December-08, 03:18

1NT is fine !

Aces are better than other cards ! Usually 4 HCP is not enough for them !
Alain
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#6 User is offline   daswallow 

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Posted 2004-December-08, 06:03

Definite 1NT here.
A related issue - if playing a weak NT (12-14) in all 4 seats, would anyone open if the king of clubs was, say, the 10 of clubs?
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#7 User is offline   Gerben47 

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Posted 2004-December-08, 06:22

First question: Clearly 1NT.

Second question:
A63
AT5
AT72
T43

Do I open a weak NT in 4th seat?
Yes, because everyone has passed I can expect around 9 HCP with partner, usually he won't have much less. He will probably pass this and we have a good chance of making the contract. It will be hard for either opponent to bid something after 1NT.

Opening 1D is more dangerous as opps can easily come in and reach their best contract.
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#8 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2004-December-08, 06:54

A clear 1NT, as others mentioned before.
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#9 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2004-December-08, 08:31

It is often wise to downgrade a hand with 4333 shape. But here you have 7 controls...and aces, after all, are generally under=evaluated. So I would open 1NT. (in fact, I like 14=16 NT range so this is easy 1NT opener for me).
--Ben--

#10 User is offline   joker_gib 

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Posted 2004-December-08, 10:23

daswallow, on Dec 8 2004, 07:03 AM, said:

if playing a weak NT (12-14) in all 4 seats, would anyone open if the king of clubs was, say, the 10 of clubs?

Well, asking question is answering it I think because you play weak NT (12-14) in all 4 seats !

What else would you open ???? :)
Alain
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#11 User is offline   PriorKnowledge 

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Posted 2004-December-08, 10:48

Obvious 1N

Just because "Aces and spaces" rhymes does not mean it is good advice.
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#12 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2004-December-08, 18:16

interesting i would much rather have

AJx
Qxx
KJTx
KJx

Aces are undervalued in suit contracts, and ESPECIALLY in 3N contracts based on a long suit(EG 3C p to you and you have Axx Axx T9xx Axx this is an easy 3N bid and you may well make a 17 HCP 3N opp KQ seventh and out). However if its a 3N contract based on sheer power, KJ and KQ combinations are better than aces because they have more trick taking potential. Consider

Axx opp Qxxxx
vs
KJx opp Qxxx

or

ATxx opp Qxx
vs
KJTx opp Qxx.

or

ATxx opp xxx
vs
KJTx opp xxx

tenace positions are much more valuable in power based 3Ns than aces and spaces.
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#13 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2004-December-08, 19:36

Aces and spaces control the tempo of the game. They are a nice combo across from a fistful of intermediates OR a minimum hand with a trick source.

OTOH Aces in one hand and Kings in the other make 3N very difficult sometimes.
"Phil" on BBO
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#14 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2004-December-09, 01:15

yes but controlling the tempo doesnt mean they take alot of tricks.
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#15 User is offline   cf_John0 

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  Posted 2004-December-13, 00:53

Balanced 1NT,not strange!
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#16 User is offline   bearmum 

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Posted 2004-December-13, 07:24

jillybean2, on Dec 8 2004, 07:34 PM, said:

[FONT=Courier]
Dealer: West
Vul: EW
Scoring: IMP
♠ A63
♥ AT5
♦ AT72
♣ K43
 


West  North East  South

 Pass  Pass  Pass  ?


Playing IMPS, NV. This does not look like a great 1nt after p-p-p, should I open 1♦?
My thinking...if I open 1♦ we will probably play 1nt or 2♦. If I open 1nt and p has 4M we will end up in 2nt, does it really matter?

tyia
jillybean

ALWAYS open a 15-17 hand 1NT - NO MATTER what position u are - that way YOU limit your hand and MORE importantly your P knows your point range ;)

IF you open the quoted hand 1♦ WHAT do u bid over pards 1♥ or 1♠??
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#17 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2004-December-13, 09:34

bearmum, on Dec 13 2004, 06:24 AM, said:

IF you open the quoted hand 1♦  WHAT do u bid over pards 1♥ or 1♠??

1nt :)
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
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#18 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2004-December-13, 15:08

Opening 1D and rebidding 1NT shows 12-14, so this suggest that you stil think that this hand should be downgraded :) . I think you should take the earlier posts more serious: this is a fine 15-count, aces and spaces is not a reason to downgrade your hand.

Opening 1D and rebidding 1NT would be fine on QJx QJx KQJx QJx (also a 15-count 4333 and, but a much much weaker one).
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#19 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2004-December-13, 19:05

Hannie, on Dec 13 2004, 02:08 PM, said:

Opening 1D and rebidding 1NT shows 12-14, so this suggest that you stil think that this hand should be downgraded  :(

No, I'm just saying what I would have rebid having opened 1♦.
My 1nt rebid range started off as 13-16 and I am still uncomfortable rebidding 2NT with a flat 15 :blink: More practice needed!
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
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#20 User is offline   Antoine Fourrière 

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Posted 2004-December-13, 22:53

This hand isn't worth 15 HCP, but 16 HCP.
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