[bridgeboy]

---

Imps, ALL Vul, Bidding went

South West North East

1H 2D 2H X
P 4C All Pass


Which E-W bids do you agree/disagree with?

[bearmum]

bridgeboy, on Dec 6 2004, 07:55 PM, said:

Dealer: ????? Vul: ???? Scoring: Unknown

♠ xx ♥   ♦ AKT9xxx ♣ Kxxx ♠ AKxx ♥ Q9xx ♦ xx ♣ J9x

Imps, ALL Vul, Bidding went

South  West  North East

1H  2D  2H  X
P  4C  All Pass


Which E-W bids do you agree/disagree with?

I would MOST probably bid 3 ♦(or at fav vul) 4♦ first time round


After pard's X I (on the bidding shown) have bid 4♦

[Free]

I think 5♦ would also be a wrong bid. Better to tell the ♣ suit as well, using 4NT (this should implie that your ♦s are at least 2 longer than ♣s).

4♣ is by far the worst bid, even 3NT is better

[Gerardo]

What kind of double is that? If responsive (promising black suits), I like 4♣. ♦ is a very nice SIDE suit.
I think that's what bidder thought, but it wasn't (what was it? penalty?). Anyway, agreements are needed.

[flytoox]

Dbl here only promise spade, so bidding club is wrong in my view. I think 4D shows the hand. It invites pd to game as it is a jump bid. I think 5D is too unilateral. After all, pd didnt deny club either.

[inquiry]

Well, I am going to disagree with the entire esteemed panel above, and 90% of the bridge playing public. What went wrong was the double. Simply pass with that hand. When your partner reopens with a double, you can bid or pass as you see fit (I would bid). If partner reopens with now you can bid in either black suit, you can come alive. If he rebids 3D, playing good bad, you can try 3NT.

I think making a takeout double with four cards in their suit is a highly questionable action. I would trust partner with 1♥ or 0♥ to reopen virtually 100% of the time, and if he doesn;t? We are probably in a good spot.

Bidding.... as I see it...

1♥-2♦-2♥-PAss
Pass-2NT-Pass-3♣
Pass-3♦-all pass

Ben

[Fluffy]

2♦ is wrong, too weak for it, 4♣ is even wronger (if that word exists), 7-4 plays better on 7-1 than 4-4 most of the time.

[EricK]

inquiry, on Dec 6 2004, 02:05 PM, said:

Well, I am going to disagree with the entire esteemed panel above, and 90% of the bridge playing public. What went wrong was the double. Simply pass with that hand. When your partner reopens with a double, you can bid or pass as you see fit (I would bid). If partner reopens with now you can bid in either black suit, you can come alive. If he rebids 3D, playing good bad, you can try 3NT.

I think making a takeout double with four cards in their suit is a highly questionable action. I would trust partner with 1♥ or 0♥ to reopen virtually 100% of the time, and if he doesn;t? We are probably in a good spot.

Bidding.... as I see it...

1♥-2♦-2♥-PAss
Pass-2NT-Pass-3♣
Pass-3♦-all pass

Ben

Exactly right.

You will almost never miss a ♠ fit on this sequence if you pass as partner will almost always be able to double. But if you double, you will end up declaring a lot of times when you ought to be defending. And you won't even necessarily be declaring in the right suit (partner may bid a 3 card ♠ suit instead of repeating his ♦ suit, or if partner has both minors, you might end up in 3♣ on a 4-3 fit).

Eric

[mike777]

My understanding is a 7-1 D fit will very often play better than a 4-4 C fit.

More theory discussion on playing in your 7 card suit may be appropriate.

[EricK]

mike777, on Dec 6 2004, 05:22 PM, said:

My understanding is a 7-1 D fit will very often play better than a 4-4 C fit.

That is true. But you don't know partner has a 7 card suit when you double. So you have to allow for all manner of possible hands for partner if you contemplate a double.

Eric

[flytoox]

EricK, on Dec 6 2004, 05:24 PM, said:

mike777, on Dec 6 2004, 05:22 PM, said:

My understanding is a 7-1 D fit will very often play better than a 4-4 C fit.

That is true. But you don't know partner has a 7 card suit when you double. So you have to allow for all manner of possible hands for partner if you contemplate a double.

Eric

what mike means is that the 7-card holder should bid it out even knowing there is a 44fit.

[luke warm]

for once i disagree with fluffy, on both counts.. west's hand isn't that bad... 2d seems right to me... and after pard's responsive (?) double, even 4c isn't bad.. i agree with ben and others, east should simply pass

[EricK]

flytoox, on Dec 6 2004, 05:50 PM, said:

EricK, on Dec 6 2004, 05:24 PM, said:

mike777, on Dec 6 2004, 05:22 PM, said:

My understanding is a 7-1 D fit will very often play better than a 4-4 C fit.

That is true. But you don't know partner has a 7 card suit when you double. So you have to allow for all manner of possible hands for partner if you contemplate a double.

Eric

what mike means is that the 7-card holder should bid it out even knowing there is a 44fit.

So in the case where he is 7-4 it works OK. But if he is 5-4 in the minors he will surely bid the ♣, and if he is 6-4 probably then as well.

Eric

[pclayton]

Responsive doubles seem to be one of those amalgamous creatures that gets redefined every 10 years or so. The person that chose this call probably belongs to the 'point-showing' camp.

To me, a low level responsive doubles shows the following:

1. 1 minor - double - 2 minor........double shows the majors
2. 1 major - double - 2 major........double shows the minors
3. 1 minor - 1 major - 2 minor OR 1 major - 2 minor - 2 major.......double shows the unbids.
4. 1 minor - double - new suit.......double is penalty (meaning he stole my bid).

Higher level responsive doubles, say at he the 4 level and up show CARDS. I play them through 7♥.

So, its reasonable for West to take preference to clubs, but I'd still ignore them. I like 4N here, but 4♦ is OK too. While I don't like a 4-4 compared to a 7-1 or 7-2, I much prefer a 5-4 in clubs to either.

[PriorKnowledge]

• agree with pclayton about respon dbl rules
  
• agree with inquiry's pass
  
• 2D overcall is fine
  
• Dbl was wrong, pass better
  
• 4C is OK. Advancer's dbl increases hand
  
• After 4C, advancer must bid 4D because overcaller can't be 55 (else un NT), so must be 64 or strong 54. If strong 54, can't pass with 10. If 64, can't play in clubs.

[HeartA]

what's dbl for? try to find Spades fit? not likely. With 8 HCP (HQ wouldn't help anything in any suit contract, S, D or C), game is almost impossible even if pd has a running diamond suit of 7-card (3NT opening hand), because opps would take the first at least) 5 tricks with ♥ and some winners in ♣. Pass is right. 4♣ is certainly right, either. With a good 7-card ♦ suit and weak ♣ suit, I would bid 3D (or 4D if you are aggressive).