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Convention With No Name, or Partner With No Clue?

#1 User is offline   daveharty 

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Posted 2012-November-11, 18:50



IMPs. Reasonable partner, no discussion.
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#2 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2012-November-11, 18:56

Love the title. I don't remember what the CWNN is so this is a pure guess.
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#3 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-November-11, 19:30

Would never assume CWNN without prior discussion; would never assume partner with no clue without evidence. 4♥.

Edit: If, I thought for a minute that partner played 4C (and 4D) both as CWNN, with 4C slammish and 4D not, as we do ---then 5H denying 1st round control of the pointed suits but a whole bunch of extra hearts.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2012-November-11, 21:12

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#4 User is offline   jdeegan 

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Posted 2012-November-11, 19:57

:P Pass. I can only count 10 tricks opposite 8 solid clubs and out.
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#5 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2012-November-11, 20:13

3nt. After the Director bars pard from bidding any more, 4♥
When a deaf person goes to court is it still called a hearing?
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#6 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2012-November-12, 01:39

Well I play this bid as showing 6 very good Clubs and 4 card H support. I don't know if it has a name or not.This seems unlikely with my heart holding and the bidding though.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#7 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-November-12, 02:28

View Postthe hog, on 2012-November-12, 01:39, said:

Well I play this bid as showing 6 very good Clubs and 4 card H support. I don't know if it has a name or not.

Yep, that is the half of the convention many people use ---another reason not to use names even for conventions with no names.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#8 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2012-November-12, 03:17

View Postdaveharty, on 2012-November-11, 18:50, said:



IMPs. Reasonable partner, no discussion.


Obviously 4♣ is a additional raise to 1♥,it showed a 6 card semi-strong ♣ suit with 4 card ♥ support,14hcp +.
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#9 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2012-November-12, 07:00

View Postaguahombre, on 2012-November-11, 19:30, said:


Edit: If, I thought for a minute that partner played 4C (and 4D) both as CWNN, with 4C slammish and 4D not, as we do ---then 5H denying 1st round control of the pointed suits but a whole bunch of extra hearts.

I didn't know of this version.... thx.
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#10 User is offline   daveharty 

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Posted 2012-November-12, 08:13

View Postthe hog, on 2012-November-12, 01:39, said:

Well I play this bid as showing 6 very good Clubs and 4 card H support. I don't know if it has a name or not.This seems unlikely with my heart holding and the bidding though.

So what's your call?
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#11 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2012-November-12, 09:10

4♥. I don't have a diamond control. I really think that is all that there is to the hand from my side.

A very disciplined 4♣ call would look like this:

x(x)
KQJx
x(x)
AKQJxx

Partner should be 2-4-1-6 or 1-4-2-6. In either case, we are off 2 or 3 tricks on top.

If partner is stronger, he can move again on his own. The only problem would be if he is 2-4-1-6 with the ♦A in addition to the rest (possibly with Kxxx of hearts), in which case he might not want to move forward with xx in spades. But I am not going to move beyond 4♥ in the hope that he has a diamond control.
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#12 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2012-November-12, 09:49

If I had to, I would bet on pwnc, but luckily now I have an (at least plausible) 4H bid either way.
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#13 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2012-November-12, 10:16

View Postaguahombre, on 2012-November-12, 02:28, said:

Yep, that is the half of the convention many people use ---another reason not to use names even for conventions with no names.

Is the other half 4♦ = 6 not so good clubs with 4 hearts?
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#14 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-November-12, 10:42

View PostfromageGB, on 2012-November-12, 10:16, said:

Is the other half 4♦ = 6 not so good clubs with 4 hearts?

No. The way we use it, 4C=slammish and 4D=not slammish (no matter which minor is opened).

X
KJXX
XX
AKQJxx 4♦

X
KQXX
AX
AKQJXX 4♣
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#15 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2012-November-12, 11:55

Thanks, aguahombre. Not dependent on the clubs, but on the total hand being slam suitable.
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#16 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-November-12, 12:02

View PostfromageGB, on 2012-November-12, 11:55, said:

Thanks, aguahombre. Not dependent on the clubs, but on the total hand being slam suitable.

Yes, and 4C is still the slammish one if we have long diamonds and open 1♦ instead of 1♣
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#17 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2012-November-12, 13:47

Frankly, the word "obviously" should be banned from these discussions. :P
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#18 User is offline   jdeegan 

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Posted 2012-November-20, 12:10

:P I have had some pards who played your auction as a solid six card minor (or, maybe semi-solid, say missing the Q), four trumps to an honor or two and out - a 'picture' bid. The thing about picture bids is they describe hands that are easy to bid anyway, so you don't want to strain to use them. Define them closely and take your profit whenever they do come up.
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#19 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2012-November-21, 04:10

I had teammates who had a major accident on this auction once.
They both knew that 1C P 1H P 4C was 4-6 in hearts and clubs, but one of them thought this also applied after the 1S overcall, and the other one thought that 4C was now a pre-emptive type call with very long clubs.

Neither was 'right' as such, but it's not enough to think that you play this meaning for 4C without an overcall and THEREFORE you play it after the overcall as well.
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