[32519]

Are 5-card majors permissable (or recognised) in an ACOL 1NT (12-14 HCP)?

[Zelandakh]

They certainly are when I play it. Here's an excerpt from the EBU Modern Acol system file:-

1 Balanced hands
A balanced hand is one that contains no singleton or void and not more than one
doubleton. The possible distributions are 4333, 4432 and 5332, the suits being listed in any order.

Table of bids and rebids
12-14HCP: Open 1NT (may include a poor 5card major)

[Cyberyeti]

Some people allow it, some don't, some only allow bad 5 card majors. I prefer 1♠-2♣-2♠ to "guarantee" 6, so we only open 5332s with the major 1M if we have something like AKQJx, Jxx, xxx, Jx where we're prepared to say we have a 6th one.

[fromageGB]

I would ask "does it matter?"
I am not aware of any police force or authority who will castigate/prosecute a player doing such a thing when he describes his overall methods as "acol".

[PhilKing]

Acol is all about doing what you want, as long as it is natural (and usually non-forcing).

[32519]

The reason I asked is completely innocent. At our local club, LHO opened an ACOL 1NT-pass-pass-to me. I held a balanced 16 HCP hand and duly doubled for penalties. Now LHO “escaped” to 2♠. I held KQx in the suit. When partner was unable to do anything over 2♠, my guess was that the HCP were split evenly between the two sides and passed. Declarer made the 2♠ contract when a 5th ♠ was produced. This was the first time any ACOL player had opened a 1NT 12-14 HCP against me with a hand containing a 5-card major. I was surprised to see it and hence my question.

[Flem72]

32519, on 2012-September-21, 04:37, said:

Are 5-card majors permissable (or recognised) in an ACOL 1NT (12-14 HCP)?

Brits I've played with are big on opening all min 5M-3-3-2 hands 1WNT, even AKQJx Qx xxx xxx, b/c then 1M claims extras or shape immediately.

[ahydra]

I think "standard" is to open 1NT with a bad major in 5M332. My partner and I being the types we are agreed that "bad" is A9xxx or worse. I've seen people open all 5M332s 1NT, but nobody who flat-out refuses to open 1NT with a 5M332.

ahydra

[Vampyr]

fromageGB, on 2012-September-21, 06:35, said:

I would ask "does it matter?"
I am not aware of any police force or authority who will castigate/prosecute a player doing such a thing when he describes his overall methods as "acol".

I think that the OP's point is that people should not use potentially misleading terms. But I also think that terms such as "Acol", "Standard American", "Precision" and the like cover so many variations these days that they cannot, in a sense, be considered misleading.

In any case, I have never heard of any system that disallows 1NT openings with 5-card majors or minors, but that is probably simply because I have had a sheltered life.

[gordontd]

Vampyr, on 2012-September-21, 09:23, said:

probably simply because I have had a sheltered life.

If you've led a sheltered life, the storm must have been ferocious indeed.

[brian_m]

Vampyr, on 2012-September-21, 09:23, said:

<...>

In any case, I have never heard of any system that disallows 1NT openings with 5-card majors or minors, but that is probably simply because I have had a sheltered life.

I'll start the list with MOSCITO, as far as five card majors are concerned. In fact, in the variant I used to play, 1NT denied a four card major.

[Zelandakh]

brian_m, on 2012-September-22, 07:43, said:

I'll start the list with MOSCITO, as far as five card majors are concerned. In fact, in the variant I used to play, 1NT denied a four card major.

It is also unacceptable in Forum D and the locals find it rather strange that we choose to include 5 card majors in our 1NT opening playing Acol. This seems to be seen as much stranger than the weak NT itself, indeed there are far more comments of surprise about including a 5 card majors than including a singleton minor! (even though the latter was banned until a few years ago).

[the hog]

brian_m, on 2012-September-22, 07:43, said:

I'll start the list with MOSCITO, as far as five card majors are concerned. In fact, in the variant I used to play, 1NT denied a four card major.

In one of B-M variants it actually showed both Majors, any shape.

[shevek]

Zelandakh, on 2012-September-21, 04:41, said:

They certainly are when I play it. Here's an excerpt from the EBU Modern Acol system file:-

1 Balanced hands
A balanced hand is one that contains no singleton or void and not more than one
doubleton. The possible distributions are 4333, 4432 and 5332, the suits being listed in any order.

Table of bids and rebids
12-14HCP: Open 1NT (may include a poor 5card major)

A bit restrictive on "balanced"

Do I get a warning if I think it's normal to open 1NT on

♠Qx ♥Ax ♦AQxx ♣Jxxxx ?

[fromageGB]

shevek, on 2012-September-27, 19:18, said:

A bit restrictive on "balanced"

Do I get a warning if I think it's normal to open 1NT on

♠Qx ♥Ax ♦AQxx ♣Jxxxx ?

If you play 12-14, you get a warning from partner if you DON'T open this 1NT

[Zelandakh]

I would open that 1NT too but if you are playing the given system strictly by the book then you open 1♣ and rebid 2♣ over a 1M response. The same is true for a strong NT system; I know plenty of players who would not even dream of opening 1NT with ♠Ax ♥Ax ♦AKxx ♣Jxxxx or the like.

[PhilKing]

Zelandakh, on 2012-September-21, 04:41, said:

They certainly are when I play it. Here's an excerpt from the EBU Modern Acol system file:-

1 Balanced hands
A balanced hand is one that contains no singleton or void and not more than one
doubleton. The possible distributions are 4333, 4432 and 5332, the suits being listed in any order.

Table of bids and rebids
12-14HCP: Open 1NT (may include a poor 5card major)

The original file was put together by Sally Brock (mysteriously not listed on the acknowledgments). There were two versions - this one (?) and a slightly expanded one with lots of optional extras (these were put in large grey boxes), such as Weak Twos, Lebensohl over reverses, Jacboy Raises, 15-17 NT rebid. In fact, pretty much every "standard" modern Acol treatment. And .... less strict requirements for 1NT openings.

I used this file when I was running the under-20 squad, since all players were required to play with eachother, and so they needed a common system, and given that most players had learnt Acol, Sally's "modern+" file was perfect.

Glancing through the current file, maybe Sally's file was too modern and they scrapped it and started again! What a waste of money.