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Responder's jump rebid

#1 User is offline   shevek 

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Posted 2012-September-27, 19:24

Normal is
1 - 1
2 - 3

as invitational, 6-carder & say 9-11 HCP

There is a case for treating
1 - 1
2 - 3

as forcing.

Who does that?

Does your answer depend on whether you play weak jump shifts?

Or form of scoring? (Might want to "correct" 2 to 2 at matchpoints, but not IMPs)

Do you play Bourke relay or similar?

TIA
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#2 User is offline   Thiros 

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Posted 2012-September-27, 19:51

View Postshevek, on 2012-September-27, 19:24, said:

There is a case for treating
1 - 1
2 - 3

as forcing.

Who does that?


Richard Pavlicek, for one. Posted Image

I can't make the call as to which treatment has more merit, but the 3 bid as invitational is so common that that's the way I play it.
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#3 User is offline   trevahound 

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Posted 2012-September-28, 11:29

View Postshevek, on 2012-September-27, 19:24, said:

Normal is
1 - 1
2 - 3

as invitational, 6-carder & say 9-11 HCP

There is a case for treating
1 - 1
2 - 3

as forcing.

Who does that?

Does your answer depend on whether you play weak jump shifts?

Or form of scoring? (Might want to "correct" 2 to 2 at matchpoints, but not IMPs)

Do you play Bourke relay or similar?

TIA


I play this as forcing (with invites going through a 2 red rebid), but it's wildly non-standard. For me, it makes sense on it's own, plus it meshes well with my xyz type auctions where 3 level jump rebids are always GF (at the minimum).
"I suggest a chapter on "strongest dummy opposite my free bids." For example, someone might wonder how I once put this hand down as dummy in a spade contract: AQ10xxx void AKQxx KQ. Did I start with Michaels? Did I cuebid until partner was forced to pick one of my suits? No, I was just playing with Brian (6S made when the trump king dropped singleton)." David Wright
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#4 User is offline   lowerline 

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Posted 2012-October-01, 09:46

View Postshevek, on 2012-September-27, 19:24, said:

Normal is
1 - 1
2 - 3

as invitational, 6-carder & say 9-11 HCP

There is a case for treating
1 - 1
2 - 3

as forcing.

Who does that?

Does your answer depend on whether you play weak jump shifts?

Or form of scoring? (Might want to "correct" 2 to 2 at matchpoints, but not IMPs)

Do you play Bourke relay or similar?

TIA


I do, because I play weak jump shifts. I also like to play the Bourke Relay/3SF, but I will only use that with a 6crd major if the suit is too bad for a jump rebid.

Steven
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#5 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2012-October-01, 10:22

TWO ways to bid 3S :

1C - 1S
2C - 3S ( invitational )


1C - 1S
2C - 2D! ( cheapest new suit forcing, may be artificial )
2NT/3C - 3S ( GF )
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
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#6 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2012-October-01, 13:24

inv but a bit stronger than most 9 hcp pt hands.

that means a 2s rebid can be quite a wide range here.

2d would be art. gf.

1c then 2c could be quite lite.
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#7 User is offline   Siegmund 

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Posted 2012-October-01, 22:14

There is a good case for playing all the 1-1-1-3s as GF. I do it with several of my partners and believe it beats the pants off of making all these hands go through FSF.

But yes, it doesn't seem to be as common now as it was, except among Pavlicek devotees. Don't know why.
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#8 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2012-October-01, 22:25

2d over 2c is not fsf
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#9 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2012-October-02, 02:16

View PostSiegmund, on 2012-October-01, 22:14, said:

There is a good case for playing all the 1-1-1-3s as GF. I do it with several of my partners and believe it beats the pants off of making all these hands go through FSF.



View Postmike777, on 2012-October-01, 22:25, said:

2d over 2c is not fsf


2 over 2 is also not a 1-1-1-3 auction. Siegmund was talking about a different set of auctions from the OP.
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
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#10 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-October-02, 10:31

View Postmike777, on 2012-October-01, 13:24, said:

inv but a bit stronger than most 9 hcp pt hands.

that means a 2s rebid can be quite a wide range here.

2d would be art. gf.

What Mike says is our choice, sort of. However:

--9's are not involved in invitational bids except in response to a 1NT opening.
--The WJS inference mentioned by some doesn't apply because our ceiling for that is 5 pts.
--2S rebid 6-10
--3S NF 11-12.

IMO, the 10-count invites are fine after a 1NT rebid where at least 2-card support is guaranteed; but when the rebid is 2C there is no guarantee opener has any spades, and our 1-suited invites should be stronger.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#11 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-October-03, 04:16

View Postshevek, on 2012-September-27, 19:24, said:

Who does that?

I do.

Quote

Does your answer depend on whether you play weak jump shifts?

Yes. If you play strong jump shifts without any clever stuff, you need 1-1;2-3 as invitational. Weak jump shifts make it easy to play this as forcing, because you can play 1-1;2-2 as constructive to invitational.

Quote

Or form of scoring? (Might want to "correct" 2 to 2 at matchpoints, but not IMPs)

No, though the scoring might affect my decision about whether to make a weak-jump-shift on a particular hand.

Quote

Do you play Bourke relay or similar?

In one partnership I play 2 as an artificial game-force, but that's not a determing factor in the meaning of 3.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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