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Cheating at Chess Is Bridge next?

#1 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2012-September-12, 09:50

A great article about some recent chess scandals.

http://www.grantland...-cheating-chess

I am sure it is just a matter of time before something like this happens at bridge.
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#2 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2012-September-12, 09:57

nanoseconds LOL.

edit: OK they think the engine evaluates every position in a few nanoseconds, but that's not really what the sentence says.
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#3 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-September-12, 10:14

View PostArtK78, on 2012-September-12, 09:50, said:

A great article about some recent chess scandals.

http://www.grantland...-cheating-chess

I am sure it is just a matter of time before something like this happens at bridge.


So a junior chess player brought an electronic device into a tournament to record moves, or do his homework, type recipes or text with his girlfriend. Turns out he used the device to CHEAT. Who knew?!

Chess admins must be the naivest people on the planet.
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#4 User is offline   jonottawa 

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Posted 2012-September-12, 11:16

"Is Bridge next?"

Next? I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least one cheating pair in every national event ever held. That's why the sooner we move to electronic play (I wonder if they'll allow revokes and leads out of turn when that happens) the better.

I found this article really interesting. I even learned a new word, "patzer". I'm surprised I've never heard it before.
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#5 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2012-September-12, 11:54

View PostPhil, on 2012-September-12, 10:14, said:

So a junior chess player brought an electronic device into a tournament to record moves, or do his homework, type recipes or text with his girlfriend. Turns out he used the device to CHEAT. Who knew?!

Chess admins must be the naivest people on the planet.

I doubt that. Cheating at chess is old news, even cheating with computers. I guess they prefer to give players the benefit of the doubt, until there is evidence. But that does not mean they are naive.

Although, I admit I am surprised that the device is allowed at the table at all. Gosh, ACBL bans cell phones at nationals, this seems basic.
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#6 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2012-September-12, 11:56

View Postjonottawa, on 2012-September-12, 11:16, said:

Next? I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least one cheating pair in every national event ever held. That's why the sooner we move to electronic play (I wonder if they'll allow revokes and leads out of turn when that happens) the better.

If you consider driving off a significant portion of players to be "better" then you may be right.
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#7 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2012-September-12, 14:06

Yes, if computers continue to improve, and so do bridge programs, then in 20 years, for THE FIRST TIME EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME, someone might cheat at bridge.
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#8 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-September-12, 14:11

you dont need to tap into your computer to cheat at chess, Mihai Suba told me a couple of years ago about a local player in Spain who suddenly started to improve his ELO rating, and was found with a device attached to his ear, with an observer teletyping the position to another with a computer who would send the messages to the player at the table.
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#9 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2012-September-12, 14:34

During the Karpov-Korchnoi title match in 1976 (? - not sure exact date), one entourage accused the other of passing coded messages to their payer via the flavor of yogurt delivered to the table. The response, as I recall, was to hire witches to cast curses on them. I'm not making this up.
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#10 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2012-September-12, 18:59

View PostFluffy, on 2012-September-12, 14:11, said:

you dont need to tap into your computer to cheat at chess, Mihai Suba told me a couple of years ago about a local player in Spain who suddenly started to improve his ELO rating, and was found with a device attached to his ear, with an observer teletyping the position to another with a computer who would send the messages to the player at the table.

That was mentioned in the article, wasn't it? He tried to claim that it was a hearing aid, but the officials checked it out and found that it was a receiver.

#11 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2012-September-13, 03:07

View Postbillw55, on 2012-September-12, 14:34, said:

During the Karpov-Korchnoi title match in 1976 (? - not sure exact date), one entourage accused the other of passing coded messages to their payer via the flavor of yogurt delivered to the table. The response, as I recall, was to hire witches to cast curses on them. I'm not making this up.

Here is a link to the wiki article. I think you are making it up about the witches though - certainly not something I have heard about. The Karpov team did have someone in the front row staring intently at Korchnoi through the matches though; I suspect this is the origin of your curse idea.
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#12 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2012-September-13, 03:54

Ahh... Karpov-Korchnoi... Those were the days...

Rik
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#13 User is offline   kereru67 

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Posted 2012-September-13, 04:35

20 years ago even weakish chess players like me could beat computers, and cell phones were bulky and mostly used for business. So there wasn't really much concern about using computers to cheat. These days anyone with a smartphone can run a program strong enough to beat Magnus Carlsen. Cell hones are now banned in chess competition - in high level tournaments at least, if your phone goes off during a game you'll be instantly forfeited (in lower level tournaments you might get off with a warning). And if you're spending a lot of time in the rest room, people are going to get suspicious.

As far as I know bridge programs haven't quite reached that point yet.
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#14 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2012-September-13, 04:52

I went to the club yesterday and I noticed that opponents often ruff their partners' tricks, underlead aces, bid ridiculous slams, miss games when they have 28+ hcp's, maybe they should stop trying to cheat with GIB and try to think for themselves.
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#15 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2012-September-13, 06:04

View PostZelandakh, on 2012-September-13, 03:07, said:

Here is a link to the wiki article. I think you are making it up about the witches though - certainly not something I have heard about. The Karpov team did have someone in the front row staring intently at Korchnoi through the matches though; I suspect this is the origin of your curse idea.

I stand corrected.

It seems my memory was a bit off. It wasn't witches, it was psychics/hypnotists/mystics, attempting (or accused of such) to psychically disrupt/hypnotize contestants or opposing psychics. Good times all around.

http://www.mark-week...ss/78kk$01.htm
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#16 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2012-September-13, 14:03

Two things struck me about this:

1. If the guy had just done it so a record of the match was at the front and the other stuff hidden behind, he would probably still be happily cheating his way to victory.

2. A 16 year old winning more than his rating would suggest is hardly enough to justify suspicion. Doesn't everyone with a high rating get it by starting out with a low rating and beating higher rated players?
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#17 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2012-September-13, 14:55

View Postnigel_k, on 2012-September-13, 14:03, said:

Two things struck me about this:

1. If the guy had just done it so a record of the match was at the front and the other stuff hidden behind, he would probably still be happily cheating his way to victory.

2. A 16 year old winning more than his rating would suggest is hardly enough to justify suspicion. Doesn't everyone with a high rating get it by starting out with a low rating and beating higher rated players?

Yes, but they still make bad moves. Nobody with a lowish rating can replicate a long series of computer moves except by cheating. So it is generally easy to tell when somebody has cheated in this way - often you can even tell which program they used. The other give away is that they won't be able to explain what they were thinking about during the game. Most chess games end with a post-mortem where the players discuss what they might have done, and what they saw and didn't see. Someone relying on computer moves will find it very hard to take part in a convincing post-mortem.
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#18 User is offline   semeai 

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Posted 2012-September-13, 15:20

View Postnigel_k, on 2012-September-13, 14:03, said:

If the guy had just done it so a record of the match was at the front and the other stuff hidden behind, he would probably still be happily cheating his way to victory.


The program is apparently approved only because you can't change programs while using it. You need to enter a result for the game to quit the program. I don't know all the details, but see here, in particular the USCF Approval link down at the bottom.
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#19 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2012-September-13, 15:30

It's quite amazing that the developer of the software can say 'it cannot be rigged' with a straight face. Of course he needs to do so but still wow. Hackers continue to break into bank accounts, CIA databases, etc.
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#20 User is offline   dwar0123 

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Posted 2012-September-13, 15:33

View Postgwnn, on 2012-September-13, 15:30, said:

It's quite amazing that the developer of the software can say 'it cannot be rigged' with a straight face. Of course he needs to do so but still wow. Hackers continue to break into bank accounts, CIA databases, etc.

View Postgwnn, on 2012-September-13, 15:30, said:

Of course he needs to do so but still wow.


View Postgwnn, on 2012-September-13, 15:30, said:

wow

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