[rduran1216]

all red, matchpoints, 4th chair. You hold:

AKJ A9 Axx AKJ109

Auction so far

pass 3H pass 4NT
pass 5C pass 5D
pass 6H pass ?


5C shows 1.

Your call?

[JLOGIC]

I'd just bid 7H. Ruffing out clubs potentially is a big thing, and I doubt 7H making will score poorly.

TBH it's closer than I first thought since they might lead a "passive" black suit, but I imagine good opps will usually lead a heart. I don't really wanna face the decision of whether to play AK or clubs and hook a spade risking down 2 or to just guess which black suit to hook after running hearts.

Random side note: 5N by partner should show extras with the queen and no side king (like a side queen).

Bidding 7H just goes towards my general philosophy in these spots, get an ave + and don't go for the huge score while risking a zero on a board.

[SteveMoe]

Echoing Justin.
Wouldn't it be great if a suit bid above 6 in our strain ASKED for the Queen of that suit, guaranteeing a raise to 7 of our suit in any case? Sure would help direct the decision between ♥ and NT.

[JLOGIC]

to me, 7C would show that I wanted to play 7C. That doesn't seem like the best agreement here but its simple at least

[Yu18772]

7♥, I like playing 5NT showing Q no kings - that allows to bid 6!c asking for Q!c...however I wouldnt be able to ask for either one of black queens.

Yu

[yin970902]

7♥！
opener's 6♥ shows Queen in heart and no King in diamond.
If he has ♥KQJTxxx and not other queen,♣ suit is a good source to get the 13th trick before finesse ♠Queen.

[rhm]

Depends on the field.
In a strong field I would certainly go for 7NT, believing that most would bid the grand.
After all the grand is not very hard to bid and there may be 15 tricks of the top or partner may well have opened 3♥ with an eight card suit. I certainly would with ♠xx,♥KQTxxxxx,♦xx,♣x

If that is the case I doubt that 7♥ will give you average plus in a strong field.

Rainer Herrmann

[phil_20686]

rhm, on 2012-September-11, 04:12, said:

I certainly would [open 3♥ with ♠xx,♥KQTxxxxx,♦xx,♣x

You make my dad seem very aggressive. I didnt realise that was possible.

[kenrexford]

FWIW, another "random" side note:

After 5♦, in the context of a partner who preempted, a better structure seems reasonable:

1. If partner does not have the trump Queen, he bids 5♥.
2. If partner has the trump Queen but no side cards he bids 6♥.
3. If partner has a side card (King or Queen), he shows it as follows:

3A. 5♠ = spade card
3B. 5NT = diamond card
3C. 6♣ = club card

4. If Opener shows a side card, one-up asks if that card is the King or Queen:

4A. After 5♠(spade card), 5NT asks if King or Queen. If Queen, sign off at 6♥. If King, Opener can show shortness (6♣ short club, 6♦ short diamond, 6♠ stiff King, 6NT no shortness).
4B. After 5NT(diamond card), 6♣ asks if King or Queen, same basic structure, but show stiff diamond King as "no shortness."
4C. After 6♣(club card), 6♦ asks if King or Queen, same basic structure, except show stiff club King as "no shortness." Notice that no bid is available for club King with diamond shortness. Hence...

5. If partner has the trump Queen, club King, and diamond shortness, he answers 5♦ by bidding 6♦.

6. If Partner shows that his card is the Queen (rebids 6♥ after the ask), 6♠ asks if there is anything other Queen. 7♥ says no, 7♣/7♦ shows Queen here, and 6NT shows spade Queen. In the suit where the Queen is already shown, this "Queen" is the Jack instead.

7. If the preempt was in spades, a similar structure could be used, tweaked accordingly.

[ahydra]

Depends on field as rhm suggested. Strong field + matchpoints = 7NT, otherwise 7H.

ahydra

[PhilKing]

I would bid 5NT with an an eighth heart (eg KjTxxxxx) or KQ to seven and a side queen. This leaves room for 6 minor to ask for a filler (eg 6c-7c to show the queen, or 6c-7H to just show eight hearts).

No way partner has KQ to eight here, so 7NT is a real punt. If partner did bid 5NT, I am jumping to 7NT, since worst case scenarion is that he has the diamond queen. Here, he has denied better than KQ(J)xxxx and out.

[Fluffy]

kenrexford, on 2012-September-11, 08:25, said:

FWIW, another "random" side note:

After 5♦, in the context of a partner who preempted, a better structure seems reasonable:

1. If partner does not have the trump Queen, he bids 5♥.
2. If partner has the trump Queen but no side cards he bids 6♥.
3. If partner has a side card (King or Queen), he shows it as follows:

3A. 5♠ = spade card
3B. 5NT = diamond card
3C. 6♣ = club card

4. If Opener shows a side card, one-up asks if that card is the King or Queen:

4A. After 5♠(spade card), 5NT asks if King or Queen. If Queen, sign off at 6♥. If King, Opener can show shortness (6♣ short club, 6♦ short diamond, 6♠ stiff King, 6NT no shortness).
4B. After 5NT(diamond card), 6♣ asks if King or Queen, same basic structure, but show stiff diamond King as "no shortness."
4C. After 6♣(club card), 6♦ asks if King or Queen, same basic structure, except show stiff club King as "no shortness." Notice that no bid is available for club King with diamond shortness. Hence...

5. If partner has the trump Queen, club King, and diamond shortness, he answers 5♦ by bidding 6♦.

6. If Partner shows that his card is the Queen (rebids 6♥ after the ask), 6♠ asks if there is anything other Queen. 7♥ says no, 7♣/7♦ shows Queen here, and 6NT shows spade Queen. In the suit where the Queen is already shown, this "Queen" is the Jack instead.

7. If the preempt was in spades, a similar structure could be used, tweaked accordingly.

This looks more playable that your usual giberish random thoughts, but you forgot to explain what to do with KQ and with K+K or K+Q

a better aproach I think is this:

5♠ queen without kings, but some queen
5NT King of clubs
6♣ King of diamonds
6♦ King of spades

Now you have space to ask for specific queens, for KQ combos and even some K+K (except diamonds+spades)

[kenrexford]

Fluffy, on 2012-September-11, 15:14, said:

This looks more playable that your usual giberish random thoughts, but you forgot to explain what to do with KQ and with K+K or K+Q

a better aproach I think is this:

5♠ queen without kings, but some queen
5NT King of clubs
6♣ King of diamonds
6♦ King of spades

Now you have space to ask for specific queens, for KQ combos and even some K+K (except diamonds+spades)

I did not expect a 10-12 count.

[JLOGIC]

rhm, on 2012-September-11, 04:12, said:

Depends on the field.
In a strong field I would certainly go for 7NT, believing that most would bid the grand.
After all the grand is not very hard to bid and there may be 15 tricks of the top or partner may well have opened 3♥ with an eight card suit. I certainly would with ♠xx,♥KQTxxxxx,♦xx,♣x

If that is the case I doubt that 7♥ will give you average plus in a strong field.

Rainer Herrmann

Surely with the 8th heart he would give you 5N rather than 6H, I mean the 8th heart is a lock extra trick.

[Fluffy]

ahh specific to preempt with 1 keycard context, now it all makes sense.

[PhilKing]

JLOGIC, on 2012-September-11, 22:07, said:

Surely with the 8th heart he would give you 5N rather than 6H, I mean the 8th heart is a lock extra trick.

The method whereby bidding 7NT is right involves partner jumping to Six Hearts with a concealed ♣Q as well (hence the 15 top tricks reference).

[kenrexford]

Fluffy, on 2012-September-11, 22:21, said:

ahh specific to preempt with 1 keycard context, now it all makes sense.

Obviously, if the context is a preempt and two keys, you probably would want to consider the two queen scenario and not the king, with more emphasis on locating useful jacks, once pattern is finalized.

[PhilKing]

kenrexford, on 2012-September-12, 04:31, said:

Obviously, if the context is a preempt and two keys, you probably would want to consider the two queen scenario and not the king, with more emphasis on locating useful jacks, once pattern is finalized.

That's why some of us play Four Clubs as RKCB here, since on a good day we can ask for tens.

[kenrexford]

PhilKing, on 2012-September-12, 04:34, said:

That's why some of us play Four Clubs as RKCB here, since on a good day we can ask for tens.

Do you eventually use 1430 10-ask like me? The benefit is consistency with 1430 10-ask DEPO.

[PhilKing]

kenrexford, on 2012-September-12, 06:41, said:

Do you eventually use 1430 10-ask like me? The benefit is consistency with 1430 10-ask DEPO.

Nah - I'm a spiral scan man when my first key card ask is below 4M but have yet to ask for a jack in anger, and I play Kantar (more or less) by the book after standard RKCB.