[awm]

People seem to spend a lot of time talking about slam bidding and competitive auctions, but one of the big factors in our recent Cayne match was knowing when to bid game. Here are three example hands:

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The E/W auction was by mslair and mseligman on the Cayne team. The game is beatable, but it makes on the normal-seeming club lead by north. At the other table, sieong and I bid 1♦ (precision) - P - 1NT and played there making ten tricks.

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The N/S auction was by llorenzo and jec. The contract is cold on clubs 2-1. At the other table: 1♦-X-2♣-P-3♣-All pass, making twelve tricks.

In case one might think our team is "just too conservative" and misses games a lot, here's one more example:

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Here N/S are jillybean and kristen33. The game has no real play on the natural heart lead. At the other table, llorenzo and jec (against sieong and me) bid 1♥-Dbl-2♥-2♠-3♥-All pass.

Anyway, I thought this was an interesting if under-mentioned part of the result. Are they just lucky that their "pushy games" make and our "pushy games" don't? Or are they bidding better than we are, to know when to push for these? Some 22 IMPs swung their way on these three boards (more than the match margin).

[quiddity]

IMO:
Board 1 is just overbidding by EW which worked out when North made a horrible "normal seeming" lead. Assuming the 1C opening and 2C preference were natural, how many clubs is partner going to have?

Board 16 is a normal upgrade to 1N (prime 14 with a great suit).

The last board is interesting. Maybe the lesson is that long suits take tricks in NT. Upgrade for 5+ card suits. Getting to a pushy game with no source of tricks when the opps open 1M is not likely to work.

[Zelandakh]

quiddity, on 2012-September-09, 11:05, said:

The last board is interesting. Maybe the lesson is that long suits take tricks in NT.

Or maybe the lesson is that Ax is not a good enough stopper in a suit that the opps have bid and raised on a minimum. I agree completely on the first hand. The second deal is more interesting though - upgrading the North hand is surely a matter of style. The aces and honour concentration are great but the spots (highest 5!) leave a lot to be desired. Was the 2♣ response ITD, weak, or something else? If it is ITD then North should do more; if weak then South has to realise the hand is huge opposite the raise.

Perhaps their pushy games make more often because they play better defence too? After all, several of our pairs are considerably less established than those that play for Cayne.

[Antrax]

I realize this is probably trivial (as no-one else asked about it), but is it common to overcall NT in direct seat with no stopper? What is South's 3♥ after Leb?
[edit]
Talking about the third board.

[paulg]

Hands two and three I think they just bid the hands better. Hand three is a good example of not doing too much holding three small in the opponent's suit and not overbidding with balanced hands.

Hand one I think they were lucky: West probably expected East to hold three diamonds and that 3NT would have a lot of play.

[gwnn]

Antrax, on 2012-September-10, 02:18, said:

I realize this is probably trivial (as no-one else asked about it), but is it common to overcall NT in direct seat with no stopper? What is South's 3♥ after Leb?
[edit]
Talking about the third board.

No, it's not common. I don't like it at all on this hand. I have done it on something like xx J9x AKJx AQJx over 1H, where everything looks bad (I don't X with 0-2 in an unbid major unless I have a very strong hand). On this hand you can double and it will work out most of the time.

[Codo]

Hand 1: The lead is bad, I guess a heart is the best lead in the long run, a spade with a non aggressive overcaller.

Hand 16: A 2 Club bid by East had made it hard/impossible to bid game for N/S. Else well bid.

Hand 12: I dislike to overcall with a strong NT with no stopper. X must be better. If Kathryn had known that 1 NT does not promise a stopper, she should have avoid 3 NT. Else all the blame to north.

[JLOGIC]

Why is a club lead normal on the first one, hadn't they bid and raised clubs?

I mean, you don't need to bid game with 22 HCP and no fit and balanced hands lol. Playing 1N is normal and fine. We were somewhat unlucky that they had an accident and played 3N, but we also had a chance to beat it by not leading the suit they bid and raised (if the auction is natural).

Hands 2 and 3 are much bigger problems, we were just outplayed on those, on one they got to a low HCP game that was extremely good, and on one we bid a basically zero percent game.

Generally whoever makes the most good decisions will win the bridge match, that is usually what bridge matches are about, bread and butter decisions like this and getting them right. Overcalling 1N over 1H with AQx Txx AT9 AJ9x is just a flat out bad bridge decision that will probably lose a lot of imps long term. This is a simple every day hand type, and we chose to make an abnormal and bad bid with a perfectly normal and good bid (double) available. It will be hard to beat a team over a semi-lengthy match getting simple ones like this wrong.

I am not even saying this to be mean, I have no idea who overcalled 1N, but that's why these matches are good for people who are trying to learn, if you have any glaring leaks they will be exposed quickly. I'm sure we are losing many imps in many matches on routine hands like this because they are simply better than our teams usually, and that is the killer. It is really important to get the easy ones right, and you will get some of the hard ones right and some wrong, that is basically bridge.

Hand 2 I have sympathy for the actions taken, but in high level bridge I think almost every single person would open 1N, that is a routine bid. Again, this is why these matches are good, the players and kibitzers can learn these things. After opening 1D, it's pretty tough, but I think south should bid 3S over 3C realizing the potential of his hand (assuming 2C was NF). I mean, opposite Axx of clubs you're up to 8 tricks.

That is kind of the point, their judgement is good, they are bidding low HCP games with a source of tricks, and they are staying out of game when they have 1 stopper in the suit the opps bid and raised and only 24, these are things that are important to learn. Having one stopper in their 5 card suit is the kiss of death, thats what makes 26 HCP games not make. Having something like K seventh and an ace when partner RAISES you is a very strong indicator that this might be a no high 3N game. And having AQJxx and a A and a K is a routine 1N opener at higher levels.

North has a great chance to learn some lessons about some weaknesses they have and try to fix them, and south has something to reflect on, and I think that is great. It is tough to outplay lorenzo lauria, and one should never feel bad if they fail to do so.

[JLOGIC]

Zelandakh, on 2012-September-10, 01:42, said:

Or maybe the lesson is that Ax is not a good enough stopper in a suit that the opps have bid and raised on a minimum.

Partner overcalled 1N. Unless it is a psyche, partner has a heart stopper, so Ax is the double stopper. On this hand, partner did not have a heart stopper and that was the problem.

I mean, theres no reason to re-invent the wheel. You cannot overcall 1N over 1H with Txx of hearts. It wrongsides NT, you are getting a heart lead through partner, you have a good alternative of X, you have a minimum hand anyways. We see that even when partner has hearts stopped for us and a nice hand, we still have no play for game.

People trying to do much on the nothing hands and losing imps is the most common reason they lose against better teams. Their best strategy is to do normal things on normal hands and run good on the big/volatile hands. There was no need to do anything special on this hand.

[JLOGIC]

I mean, look, on hand 1 they basically gave us a straight up donation. Sam and adam did normal things, played a normal partscore, fine. There was nothing special about this board, except their counterparts screwed up an easy one, did not know what they were doing, and bid to a 22 HCP 3N with no fit. All north had to do was lead the unbid suit (a normal non genius thing to do, and by the way, I would consider leading the HQ but lets stick with this theme of doing nothing special at all), and we win 6. Unfortunately, we donated back and did not capitalize on the free imps they tried to give us. Leading partners known stiff or void with KJ98 is just not good.

On hand 3, we simply had to not overcall 1N with Txx of their major, and double with 3433 and 15 and Txx of their suit. We just had to play normal bridge, and we push, but instead we tried to be a hero and we lost some imps.

So, those 2 hands, doing nothing special we will be +6.

That leaves hand 2. That is a hand that requires some judgement, maybe some system knowledge. How light ad strong can 2C be? As has been mentioned, maybe north was worth more than 3C or maybe south was worth more over 3C. But even if we get this one wrong, that is ok. You're going to get some tough judgement hands wrong. So will they. So let's say we guessed wrong and we lost 6.

Ok, so worst case, we tied these 3 boards. We are in the game. This is all bridge really is, at any level. I sometimes start to doubt myself because I know all the tough/close hands that I get wrong, and I think, I get all these hands wrong, Helgemo, Meck, they must get more of these right, and that's why they're better. But the truth is, when I think back on matches we lost, matches like the bermuda bowl final, I realize our opponents just donated less than us. They were more solid on the basic hands where simply doing nothing wins. And by the end of it, we had simply given up too many free imps and even if they got less tough hands right than us, they would still win. The best players make fewer fundamental errors, period.

Let's just focus on being tough on the routine hands, playing down the middle, not trying to be a hero and I'm sure we'll win some of these.

[Mbodell]

Antrax, on 2012-September-10, 02:18, said:

I realize this is probably trivial (as no-one else asked about it), but is it common to overcall NT in direct seat with no stopper? What is South's 3♥ after Leb?
[edit]
Talking about the third board.

As others have pointed out it is not common to overcall NT with no stoppers. I'd have preferred pass to 1nt, but clearly the standard bid is X.

To answer the second part of your question which I didn't see in this thread 3♥ after leb (cue bid opponents suit) is standard showing a game forcing hand with 4 in the other major (if the opponent suit was a minor then it is stayman and may have only one major) *AND* showing a stopper for their suit. If you make a direct 3♥ bid without going through leb you show the same strength and shape but you deny a stopper (at least when you play the "standard" direct denies leb).

[Antrax]

Right, thanks.

[Zelandakh]

JLOGIC, on 2012-September-14, 14:16, said:

Partner overcalled 1N. Unless it is a psyche, partner has a heart stopper, so Ax is the double stopper. On this hand, partner did not have a heart stopper and that was the problem.

You are talking here about the auction from South's point of view; I was talking generally. In fact, I think I was pretty much saying the same as you did in the other post:

JLOGIC, on 2012-September-14, 14:09, said:

That is kind of the point, their judgement is good, they are bidding low HCP games with a source of tricks, and they are staying out of game when they have 1 stopper in the suit the opps bid and raised and only 24, these are things that are important to learn. Having one stopper in their 5 card suit is the kiss of death, thats what makes 26 HCP games not make.

Perhaps I should have criticised the 1NT overcall to make that clear but I was responding to something and did not include it. I thought this hand was pretty clear (therefore uninteresting) and it was better to concentrate on the second.