[rhm]

IMPs knockout

---

This was two down for -500

Rainer Herrmann

[gnasher]

I blame the dealer, and NS for not crashing their heart honours.

[ArtK78]

The blame is clearly on West. West is making a speculative call when he bids 4♥, and whether it works or goes down in flames the credit or blame falls on him.

Clearly, the East hand is a piece of crap (and a non-fitting piece of crap at that), but West must know that it is a possible hand for the 2♥ call. West is unlucky that East doesn't have any useful cards for him and has enough so that the opps have no playable spot, but that is not totally shocking.

[mcphee]

What a cheeky S getting in with that trash. West did great I think, they raise your 7 bagger bid game makes lots of sense to me. S caused the trouble, wd.

[kenrexford]

This seems like simple math. If East has shown 6-9 HCP, for example, then there is only one way that East has enough for West (except a possible spade shortness). Trump King, spade Queen, side Ace. A game TRY might be aggressive but work; a leap is silly.

[Cyberyeti]

kenrexford, on 2012-October-15, 06:11, said:

This seems like simple math. If East has shown 6-9 HCP, for example, then there is only one way that East has enough for West (except a possible spade shortness). Trump King, spade Queen, side Ace. A game TRY might be aggressive but work; a leap is silly.

Slightly depends on your raise structure, can we rule out 4 trumps ? If not I think I like 4♥.

Any law against 3433 ♥Axxx and ♦Q for a spade discard ? just needs 1-1 trumps. There are plenty of hands, some of which might not accept the game try where game makes, partner having a working 2 count is very unkind.

There are also hands where 4♠ or 5m might make but not be bid over 4♥ where you're only -1 or not doubled, or hands where you can make 3♥, they can make 3♠/4m so you pick up an IMP.

I don't think the leap is silly, but largely depends on what the other raises show. Even Axx and a useful Q or doubleton spade you're 26% not good but not a million miles below the required odds for game, and opps might be making 3♠ so might be a virtual wash anyway.

[squealydan]

kenrexford, on 2012-October-15, 06:11, said:

This seems like simple math. If East has shown 6-9 HCP, for example, then there is only one way that East has enough for West (except a possible spade shortness). Trump King, spade Queen, side Ace. A game TRY might be aggressive but work; a leap is silly.

Give partner the trump K or A and the diamond ace and you'd lose just two clubs and a trump as long as the trumps behave.

(I'm not disagreeing with your view that west might be better off inviting than jumping... If 3H would be merely competing, then redouble to invite game?)

[Codo]

Any blame would be resulting for me.

[ArtK78]

squealydan, on 2012-October-15, 06:39, said:

Give partner the trump K or A and the diamond ace and you'd lose just two clubs and a trump as long as the trumps behave.

(I'm not disagreeing with your view that west might be better off inviting than jumping... If 3H would be merely competing, then redouble to invite game?)

I don't think that a redouble is remotely appropriate unless it is 100% artificial.

A new suit or 2NT (possibly artificial) as a game try would make more sense.

[kenrexford]

Weird discussion. If West moves, a nice natural call like 2S seems wonderfully effective, and there is plenty of space for back and forth.

[andy_h]

No blame. It's truly unlucky that East has the worst possible junk and N/S don't have game on. When I open 1M with a 7 card suit and get raised by partner, I quite like just bidding game and it has worked out well for me - I don't see this hand as an exception. So many things can go right such as pushing the the opponents too high to defend at the 5-level, or we go one off when 4m/5m was making etc. What I don't want to do is to mingle around at the 3-level giving the opponents free reign to exchange some information to know whether they should be bidding 5m to make or to save because I'm sure if we don't bid 4H now we will be doing that on the next round of the auction. Give them the last guess.

[olegru]

Karma

[PhilKing]

I would jump to Four Hearts. I don't have it, but sometimes it's a lucky make and often they get stampeded into a five-level indiscretion when I was going down.

I pay off to this layout.

Just re-read AndyH post, which pretty much sums it up.

This post has been edited by PhilKing: 2012-October-15, 09:37

[rmnka447]

I have no problem with opener's jump to game -- just an unfortunate hand.

I agree with andy_h's comments -- put the maximum pressure on the opponents now rather than giving them a fielder's choice next round.

[the hog]

West should not bid 4H. The result is not unfortunate. West has 6 losers and cannot expect east to cover 3 of these with a simple raise. The result is not unexpected. East is blameless of course.

[nigel_k]

If 2♥ is a constructive raise, I would not do it with the East hand because it's such a pile. But certainly West is worth at most a game try, and even just a competitive 3♥ would not be clearly wrong.

I suspect this is another in a long line of bad results attributable to Larry Cohen and Marty Bergen telling people that just adding up your trump length is better than the judgment of even a top expert.

[Fluffy]

West missjudged his ODR, stiff King and side AKx outweight 7 trumps.