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Advancing after a double and new suit

Poll: Advancing after a double and new suit (21 member(s) have cast votes)

Now what?

  1. 3S (4 votes [19.05%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 19.05%

  2. 3NT (17 votes [80.95%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 80.95%

  3. 4C (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. 4D (RKC) (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. 5C (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. 6C (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Something else (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   jeffford76 

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Posted 2012-August-30, 11:00


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#2 User is offline   CSGibson 

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Posted 2012-August-30, 11:44

I'd bid 3N. You are protected by not having bid 1N to begin with. Even if CHO doesn't have a solid suit, the club finesse rates to be onside.
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#3 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-August-30, 14:50

Partner will know if we should die in 3NT. I started off with my "box" ---zero to 7 or 8, with 4+ diamonds. My values within that box are huge...club help, a bullet, and a likely roughing value in hearts.

Will pretend to be a partner and bid 3S, the bullet. Pls don't tell me 3S is a Western cue. If pard wanted to bid NT after doubling, partner would have bid NT after doubling. Now, with my 3S bid, she can still do that if slam is unlikely opposite what I have shown.
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#4 User is offline   CSGibson 

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Posted 2012-August-30, 15:16

View Postaguahombre, on 2012-August-30, 14:50, said:

Partner will know if we should die in 3NT. I started off with my "box" ---zero to 7 or 8, with 4+ diamonds. My values within that box are huge...club help, a bullet, and a likely roughing value in hearts.

Will pretend to be a partner and bid 3S, the bullet. Pls don't tell me 3S is a Western cue. If pard wanted to bid NT after doubling, partner would have bid NT after doubling. Now, with my 3S bid, she can still do that if slam is unlikely opposite what I have shown.


This is a close 2nd for me. If this wasn't so likely to endplay partner into bypassing 3N I would be more enthusiastic about it.

I do disagree with the slam evaluation, though. If all partner needed was 1 trick and a fit for slam, then partner should be cue-bidding, not making a passable 3C call.
Chris Gibson
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#5 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-August-30, 15:20

View PostCSGibson, on 2012-August-30, 15:16, said:

This is a close 2nd for me. If this wasn't so likely to endplay partner into bypassing 3N I would be more enthusiastic about it.

I do disagree with the slam evaluation, though. If all partner needed was 1 trick and a fit for slam, then partner should be cue-bidding, not making a passable 3C call.

I guess that means you believe 3S is some kind of last train noise. O.K. I am coming from it "shows" on this auction, and that perhaps KJX XX QTXXX JXX with its stops and otherwise wasted spade values is what 3NT would look like.
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#6 User is offline   CSGibson 

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Posted 2012-August-30, 15:35

View Postaguahombre, on 2012-August-30, 15:20, said:

I guess that means you believe 3S is some kind of last train noise. O.K. I am coming from it "shows" on this auction, and that perhaps KJX XX QTXXX JXX with its stops and otherwise wasted spade values is what 3NT would look like.


No, I just don't believe it shows anything specific about spades. It's a general cue-bid, showing the best hand for clubs in context of the auction, creating a game force. I would make the bid on 4 small spades, 3 small spades, or a stiff spade, depending on the context of the hand. I definitely do not play that it shows an anti-positional spade stopper and a fit, because that is such a low frequency event.
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#7 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2012-August-31, 02:35

View PostCSGibson, on 2012-August-30, 15:16, said:

If all partner needed was 1 trick and a fit for slam, then partner should be cue-bidding, not making a passable 3C call.

Isn't it standard to play 3 as forcing here? P is 17+ and we have shown some values.

Edit: opps sorry misread (or misremembered or whatever) the auction.

This post has been edited by helene_t: 2012-August-31, 05:03

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#8 User is offline   jmcw 

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Posted 2012-August-31, 04:25

I'll bid 3NT. I'm max could partner be big with primary
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#9 User is offline   broze 

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Posted 2012-August-31, 04:41

View Posthelene_t, on 2012-August-31, 02:35, said:

Isn't it standard to play 3 as forcing here? P is 17+ and we have shown some values.


Does the 2 call show values!? Not in my book.
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#10 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2012-August-31, 05:03

sorry, I somehow thought it was a voluntary bid.
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#11 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-August-31, 05:05

View Posthelene_t, on 2012-August-31, 05:03, said:

sorry, I somehow thought it was a voluntary bid.

It was :rolleyes: You volunteered to take out the takeout double.
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#12 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-August-31, 05:15

It is all very well to say that 3S shows, but I think we would all bid it with xxx Kxx KJxxx Jx. Partner will never bid 3NT on 2 small spades.

I also agree with Gibson that slam seems far away. It is possible that 5C is a better contract but I don't know how to find out.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

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#13 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-August-31, 05:30

View Posthan, on 2012-August-31, 05:15, said:

It is all very well to say that 3S shows, but I think we would all bid it with xxx Kxx KJxxx Jx. Partner will never bid 3NT on 2 small spades.

O.K., if you wouldn't have bid 3D (close) the first time. I advance agressively, because our takeout doubles are more toward what takeout doubles used to look like.

If I had bid 2D, I would rather "show" with 3H on your example hand, though.
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#14 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-August-31, 08:06

I don't believe you, I think your definition of 3S is tainted by seeing the ace third of spades and your partner would never play you for this at the table. I don't know what you'd next claim to bid on Jxx xxx KJxxx Qx and I'm not sure I'd want to know. Nobody bids 3S here to show spade values.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

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#15 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-August-31, 09:42

I would have bid 1N immediately, so I guess I don't agree with some of the inferences about what 3N now 'shows' or 'denies'. 3 isn't forcing, but it shows a pretty good hand and its further defined by partner not doubling a 2nd time, which is what I would expect with a 2335 18.

I also do not agree that 3 shows a partial or full spade stop. It just shows a good hand and is forward going.
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#16 User is offline   jeffford76 

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Posted 2012-August-31, 10:41

The companion hand is x AKxx Kxx AKQ10x. At the table 3NT was bid over 3C. You can make 6D, although it suffices to be in 5 of a minor. I think X is better with the other hand, but I was curious whether you can still get to the right spot.
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#17 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2012-September-04, 08:45

You can and should reach 5 of a minor after 3 NT, after all you did not bid 1 NT, so you surely do not look at AQx,xx.Txxxx.Jxx.
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