[ggwhiz]

TimG, on 2012-August-18, 20:39, said:

If you're 5332, what would make the hand unsuitable for NT?

Nothing. I'm a slave to shape. OK, 5 good spades with a club card or 2 gets 2♠ instead but only if my red suits really blow.

[jillybean]

In my partnership, after we make a 2m response to a 1M opening a 2N rebid will have the other major stopped.
This helps right side the contract and without a stopper, opener simply rebids 2M showing 5+.

[aguahombre]

the hog, on 2012-August-18, 05:29, said:

4S is a highly descriptive bid.

Referring to his example KQJTXXX XX KQ XX. Yes it is. To open that hand 4S with a quite pure 7 tricks (no scattered values) is highly descriptive. Opening it 1♠ and then gobbling up all the space at the 2,3, and 4-levels after pard responds 2♣ does nothing but create confusion.

[phil_20686]

jillybean, on 2012-August-18, 11:30, said:

If you have this agreement with your partner then it is an easy pass but I assume the OP does not have this agreement
or it would not have been posted as a problem.

This is not so much an agreement, as part of standard bidding imo.

[aguahombre]

phil_20686, on 2012-August-19, 06:13, said:

This is not so much an agreement, as part of standard bidding imo.

I don't believe the auction:
1♠-2♣
4♠

is part of standard bidding, or of 2/1 g.f. bidding. It seems to be an attempt to describe some picture holding, and I agree with those who want to ascribe some picture to unneccesary jumps in forcing auctions. But, unless the exact picture has been agreed, it would be best not to blast ---rather just take it easy, rebid the spades, and let partner participate in the auction.

All the pure trick-taking 7, 8, + single suiters are covered in our world by Namyats or 2♣ openings. Other strong "playing" hands with a long suit and more than one outside card probably need to go slower and allow the exchange of useful information.

[jillybean]

Funny, this hand came up on Friday at the club. One very good player playing with another good player but not a regular partnership had this auction...

---

Ooops

[aguahombre]

The North player realized the positional aspect in the diamond suit and that 12 tricks were there for the taking. Bravo. Expecting the spades to run with 3-2 or partner having the good grace to hold the ten of spades is not outrageous.

Bidding six spades loses unless the diamond Ace is onside AND the spades break as they did.

[the hog]

aguahombre, on 2012-August-18, 22:10, said:

Referring to his example KQJTXXX XX KQ XX. Yes it is. To open that hand 4S with a quite pure 7 tricks (no scattered values) is highly descriptive. Opening it 1♠ and then gobbling up all the space at the 2,3, and 4-levels after pard responds 2♣ does nothing but create confusion.

This is not a 4S opening in my book. Opening 1S and rebidding 4 only creates confusion if your partner is a patzer. Then I would query why you bother to play with him.

[aguahombre]

the hog, on 2012-August-19, 18:08, said:

This is not a 4S opening in my book. Opening 1S and rebidding 4 only creates confusion if your partner is a patzer. Then I would query why you bother to play with him.

Because we agree on what our Namyats bids look like, and avoid bouncing around with bids which have no meaning in 2/1 auctions.

We aren't discussing what a 1 bid followed by a 4-bid shows after a 1NT response or a simple raise. We are in a 2/1 auction. Maybe your standards for 4-bids are such that you need to blast 4S in this situation and will expect your partner to know what you are showing. We just don't happen to be in that situation. That doesn't make her a patzer, or mean we aren't patzers, either.

[ggwhiz]

aguahombre, on 2012-August-19, 18:48, said:

Because we agree on what our Namyats bids look like, and avoid bouncing around with bids which have no meaning in 2/1 auctions.

We aren't discussing what a 1 bid followed by a 4-bid shows after a 1NT response or a simple raise. We are in a 2/1 auction. Maybe your standards for 4-bids are such that you need to blast 4S in this situation and will expect your partner to know what you are showing. We just don't happen to be in that situation. That doesn't make her a patzer, or mean we aren't patzers, either.

I don't play namyats but with an unpassed hand pard our 4♠ openers show hands that are going down unless pard fills in the blank(s).

1♠ openers followed by 4♠ don't promise much more at all on a 2/1 gf auction and occasiionally go down too. If the hand is in the middle ie. too good for a weak 2, not enough for a 1 bid we pass and come in later.


We lose some but not often enough to be of concern and it's in the context of we don't open flat 11's but do open shapely 6-4's etc. on relative air and give the 1 followed by 4 treatment when pard shows a 2/1.

[rmnka447]

Sorry, but I disagree with those who say that the 4 ♠ rebid shows a good or very good spade suit. The 4 ♠ rebid over any response and especially over a 2/1 GF should show a freakish opener with a broken 7 card or longer spade suit. It says there is virtually no interest in slam -- ♠ KJ87xxx ♥ x ♦ Kxxx ♣ A or something like it.

With ♠ KQJ10xxx ♥ xx ♦ KQ ♣ xx, depending on your bidding style and partnership agreements, bid 2 ♠ over 2 ♣ and jump to game in ♠ on the next round OR jump to 3 ♠ over 2 ♣ if partner would be able to field that you might have a 6 loser player rather than the more normal 16+ point hand with a good spade suit.

[the hog]

rmnka447, on 2012-August-19, 22:12, said:

Sorry, but I disagree with those who say that the 4 ♠ rebid shows a good or very good spade suit. The 4 ♠ rebid over any response and especially over a 2/1 GF should show a freakish opener with a broken 7 card or longer spade suit. It says there is virtually no interest in slam -- ♠ KJ87xxx ♥ x ♦ Kxxx ♣ A or something like it.

With ♠ KQJ10xxx ♥ xx ♦ KQ ♣ xx, depending on your bidding style and partnership agreements, bid 2 ♠ over 2 ♣ and jump to game in ♠ on the next round OR jump to 3 ♠ over 2 ♣ if partner would be able to field that you might have a 6 loser player rather than the more normal 16+ point hand with a good spade suit.

This S suit does not play well opposite a void does it? Further don't you have a possible D contract to explore?

" That doesn't make her a patzer, or mean we aren't patzers, either."
AGH, I don't think you meant to say this. :-)

[aguahombre]

the hog, on 2012-August-19, 22:56, said:

" That doesn't make her a patzer, or mean we aren't patzers, either."
AGH, I don't think you meant to say this. :-)

Yes, I did. The methods we choose, or bids we choose to not use aren't the determining factor. There are other criteria by which we probably deserve to be judged as patzers.

[the hog]

I pretty much think that most people who post here regularly could not be described as patzers.

[lycier]

I choose to bid pass since opener rebid 4s tell me that there are not nothing with his hand to show ,now Pass is a good option.

[JustTosh]

Easy pass. When pd leaps to 4 sp there's no other choice than to trust him. I've got nothing extra to suggest another bid than pass. Pd leaps to 4s, if slam is available it gives me the chance to leap across the table.