[ahydra]

Fun hand from the Swiss Teams today.

---

OK, perhaps you would pick something else (3C, X, maybe even pass) instead of 2S. But now what?

If you double or pass...

Spoiler

...East bids 4H, passed round to you. Your call...

ahydra

[mike777]

South has a strong two bid in diamonds and north is my hand?

[the hog]

mike777, on 2012-July-22, 17:41, said:

South has a strong two bid in diamonds and north is my hand?

And the opponents are bidding like crazy? Anyway I x. I doubt my partner has his bid.

[ahydra]

the hog, on 2012-July-22, 18:08, said:

And the opponents are bidding like crazy? Anyway I x. I doubt my partner has his bid.

And over 4H-p-p?

ahydra

[mike777]

ahydra, on 2012-July-22, 18:53, said:

And over 4H-p-p?

ahydra

well pards pass must be forcing so x

in any event prefer pass, not 2s......assume pass =gf and x=less.
not sure why we bid 2s when clearly pard has strong two bid in diamonds.


if pard has a weak two bid in diamonds..hmmm

[jjbrr]

i'd bid 3C the first time.

sounds like E has a club void or something and an otherwise awful hand on this auction.

[mike777]

jjbrr, on 2012-July-22, 22:32, said:

i'd bid 3C the first time.

sounds like E has a club void or something and an otherwise awful hand on this auction.

prefer pass but ya 2s is just bad...bad bid.

[Cyberyeti]

mike777, on 2012-July-22, 18:56, said:

well pards pass must be forcing so x

in any event prefer pass, not 2s......assume pass =gf and x=less.
not sure why we bid 2s when clearly pard has strong two bid in diamonds.


if pard has a weak two bid in diamonds..hmmm

If 2♠ is natural and good, it's a reasonable bid, partner can have a strong 2 in ♦ that you want to play in ♠ or ♣ depending on your style of what you call a strong 2. KJx, Kx, AKJ109xx, A for example, and you really don't want to try to show this over 2♦-2♥-P-4♥-5♦-P.

Once the bidding goes as it does, partner has a huge diamond suit and a club void, or 3♣ was a psyche on the way to raising ♥. Would partner have bid 4♦ rather than 3 with a completely solid suit ? My inclination is to look for 6♦, but I smell a rat here, partner hasn't raised spades, so won't have more than Kx, opps want to play in hearts so I don't expect him to have more than 2, if he has a club void, he has 9 diamonds, possible but unlikely.

I had great difficulty reading the description of 2♦ as it cut off at the edge of the bidding box, but my observations above are based on all strong, ♦/♠/bal which is what I guess it went on to say.

I'd have been inclined to bid 4♥ kickback over 4♣ to see what his diamond suit looks like and then what kings he has.

[mike777]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-July-23, 00:49, said:

If 2♠ is natural and good, it's a reasonable bid, partner can have a strong 2 in ♦ that you want to play in ♠ or ♣ depending on your style of what you call a strong 2. KJx, Kx, AKJ109xx, A for example, and you really don't want to try to show this over 2♦-2♥-P-4♥-5♦-P.

Once the bidding goes as it does, partner has a huge diamond suit and a club void, or 3♣ was a psyche on the way to raising ♥. Would partner have bid 4♦ rather than 3 with a completely solid suit ? My inclination is to look for 6♦, but I smell a rat here, partner hasn't raised spades, so won't have more than Kx, opps want to play in hearts so I don't expect him to have more than 2, if he has a club void, he has 9 diamonds, possible but unlikely.

I had great difficulty reading the description of 2♦ as it cut off at the edge of the bidding box, but my observations above are based on all strong, ♦/♠/bal which is what I guess it went on to say.

I'd have been inclined to bid 4♥ kickback over 4♣ to see what his diamond suit looks like and then what kings he has.

so you show a hand that is rare... a pefect hand.......why?


at no point to you say why pass may be better...at no point

[rhm]

East wants a club lead and is void in clubs. Opponents have a big heart fit.
Since partner does not have spades, it seems likely we have a club fit.

I bid 6♣ over 4♥
Partner can correct to 6♦ with solid diamonds, in which case I will bid 6NT.
6♦ will get a club lead.

Rainer Herrmann

[Cyberyeti]

mike777, on 2012-July-23, 00:55, said:

so you show a hand that is rare... a pefect hand.......why?


at no point to you say why pass may be better...at no point

Pass may be better when the opps don't raise, when they do (and I know I always do if I have the merest glimmer of a raise in this situation) it can be horrible. This hand has a parallel in the open 1x or 2♣ situation where the advice is often not to open 2♣ with a 2 suited hand. If I had a GF with clubs only, I'd feel a little more comfortable with passing, with a 2 suited hand I'm happier bidding one of the suits.

What are you going to do over 2♦-2♥-P-3♥-4♦-P which is hardly appetising either and quite likely or 2♦-2♥-P-3♥-X(bal I presume)-4♥-. At least if you've bid one of your suits (in fact clubs works better here) you have a chance.

Bidding 2♠ consumes no important space so partner can make the bid he was going to make anyway, which is why I think it's better than pass here regardless of what LHO does.

Rainer - Might he have bid 4♣ with that to consume some space ?

[ahydra]

mike777, on 2012-July-22, 18:56, said:

well pards pass must be forcing so x

in any event prefer pass, not 2s......assume pass =gf and x=less.
not sure why we bid 2s when clearly pard has strong two bid in diamonds.


if pard has a weak two bid in diamonds..hmmm

We're not that great a pair. We play pass = weakest action, X = general strength and any bid is GF. But partner won't psyche the 2D opening - it's strong ("GF or nearly", 8 playing tricks would do), with either 5+ diamonds, 5+ spades or 24-25 bal.

Even with a string of diamonds, can't partner have three spades?

ahydra

[rhm]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-July-23, 03:21, said:

Rainer - Might he have bid 4♣ with that to consume some space ?

East might have bid 4♣ or he might not.
I do not know how good the East-West pair was. Few non professional pairs are on strong grounds here
Anyway the ♣ bids do not add up.
I think the inference that East does not have clubs is strong.
I am more worried that partner may misinterpret 6♣. That's why you need to double 4♣.

Rainer Herrmann

[Cyberyeti]

rhm, on 2012-July-23, 03:58, said:

East might have bid 4♣ or he might not.
I do not know how good the East-West pair was. Few non professional pairs are on strong grounds here
Anyway the ♣ bids do not add up.
I think the inference that East does not have clubs is strong.
I am more worried that partner may misinterpret 6♣. That's why you need to double 4♣.

Rainer Herrmann

I think the club bids just might add up, if I have ♣AKxx and ♥Jxxx(x) and partner bids hearts, 3♣ is not stupid as a lead direction against a high level pointy suit contract and a good way of stopping partner leading from a heart suit headed by the K, isn't this just as likely as a void, and partner has raised with 10xx.

[rhm]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-July-23, 06:33, said:

I think the club bids just might add up, if I have ♣AKxx and ♥Jxxx(x) and partner bids hearts, 3♣ is not stupid as a lead direction against a high level pointy suit contract and a good way of stopping partner leading from a heart suit headed by the K, isn't this just as likely as a void, and partner has raised with 10xx.

Hardly, opponents have a huge fit and where is our fit? Where are partner's HCP? Solid diamonds alone do not justify such bidding.

With a club void partner will correct to spades. That is fine with me.

Rainer Herrmann

[kenrexford]

Some of this hasbeen said by others.

Partner opens 2♦, a strong forcing opening with a balanced hand or a pointed suit. Over this, my RHO bids 2♥, which is not a shocker, considering my hand.

At this point, I would be surprised if 2♠ by me did not show 5+ spades, which is what I have. I see no problem with that call, even with six clubs, as this is the most practical call. 3♣ has some merit, if I am prepared to blast into spades later, but 2♠ is fine.

Now, LHO "surprises" by bidding 3♣. I would personally expect 3♣ to be a lead-director more often than a suit. I mean, it could be a suit, but this screams lead-director.

Partner now bids 3♦, again not a shocker -- he has diamonds. I see no reason for this to be a solid diamond suit. The only thing we know is that partner (1) has diamonds, (2) does not have three spades, and (3) does not have a hand wher doubling 3♣ seems right.

RHO now bids 4♣. I have no idea whether 4♣ is a confused raise, a hedge raise, or funny. I don't really care, though. The opponents are playing 4♥ if I double, so I do not see 4♣X as the final contract. Additionally, though, I do not see doubling 4♣ as sending a message to partner that I have six clubs.

So, what the heck to do?

This auction has turned into a nightmare. I can never show my hand, so I will be doing a lot of guesswork. I am fairl cerain that LHO does not have th heart King, so I see no hart losers and no diamond losers in a contract other than in diamonds or notrump. But, partner as a lot of stuff. I mean, we have something in the neighborhood of 36 HCP combined as a minimum.

I think I will bid 6NT as a wild-ass guess, myself.

[ahydra]

This was against an experienced, but not top-flight, team. The full hand and auction:

---

WTF is that 2H bid?! And yes, jjbrr, East's hand most definitely is awful.

I practically fell off my chair when I saw the 4♣ bid. I thought and thought, then decided partner must have something like Kx xx AKQJxxxxx --- and decided to take the money. 6NT would have been my second choice - I was very close to pulling it out of the box both after 4C and after 4H.

But yep, it seems some of you have played this game before . East was trying to attract a club lead against a pointy suit contract, and I was (note was ) naïve enough to believe his antics. So we picked up 500, missed our club slam, and thought we were going to lose the match as a result... until team-mates come back with 7D-2 by South for a 12-imp gain! (Apparently the bidding at the other table was pretty terrible. Despite knowing of the 10-card club fit and missing ♣K, South still opted for 7D, apparently because she has a habit of insisting she plays the contract!)

Partner admits to overbidding with the 2♦ opener. Things get quite interesting after 1D-1H-2C-4H - what would you guys do with South?

ahydra

Edit: hmm, lucky post (#777) about a lucky result!

[Cyberyeti]

I think you should make 6♦ on a club lead but not otherwise which is slightly bizarre. Seems like the club psyche is not great

[ahydra]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-July-23, 17:07, said:

I think you should make 6♦ on a club lead but not otherwise which is slightly bizarre. Seems like the club psyche is not great

Haha, nice spot. Indeed if it goes club lead, small, ruff then declarer must play to discard the clubs, playing the spade finesse first (then ruffing a spade) followed by the heart finesse, but that line isn't too unreasonable on the bidding. (Edit: so, what happens if East returns a heart? Now declarer can't get back to hand to take the spade finesse and must go off?)

ahydra

[Cyberyeti]

ahydra, on 2012-July-23, 18:48, said:

Haha, nice spot. Indeed if it goes club lead, small, ruff then declarer must play to discard the clubs, playing the spade finesse first (then ruffing a spade) followed by the heart finesse, but that line isn't too unreasonable on the bidding. (Edit: so, what happens if East returns a heart? Now declarer can't get back to hand to take the spade finesse and must go off?)

ahydra

That's a good spot too, I think you're right about the heart switch and that's a lovely defensive problem which might just make it into our county mag under a title of something like "Be careful what you wish for".

The other one that amused me was if he didn't ruff at trick 1, you score the Q♣and just play a second club, he's welcome to ruff a loser and establish the clubs, and if he discards, you pitch the 2 clubs on spade and heart and just give up a trump.