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Tell me the old,old story as if to a child....

#1 User is offline   Laird 

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Posted 2004-November-18, 08:51

Hello All

Im starting to get confused again.

Can someone please explain in simple terms the differences between a negative double and a sputnik double. When do they become penalty doubles.

Perhaps a simple explanation of both would help.

I usually double ops Spade as sputnik to say ops have prevented me bidding hearts ..is this too simplistic?

John :rolleyes:
UDCA...'You take the High Road an I'll take the Low Road'...
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Posted 2004-November-18, 09:10

Sputnik double was the name first given to the negative double. When it was first used (and I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong), I think Sputnik doubles applied only on very narrowly defined auctions. Certainly only at the one level. For some reason, I think 1m-(1S)-DBL was Sputnik to show hearts basically.

Today, Sputnik and negative double are used as the same term. How high to play these is a matter of partnership agreement.

We really don;t need all these fancy names for such doubles. Perhaps Robson/Segal said it best when they said" "There are many titles given to doubles used in various sequences: ‘negative’, ‘sputnik’, ‘responsive’, ‘snap-dragon!’ and others. Colourful though some of them are, these terms are largely redundant, and (worse) confusing. They tend to distract from the fact that all these doubles are simply ‘take-out’, showing an offensive hand that wants to compete with no other clear bid to make.


Thus, these doubles are takeout. They are meant to get your partner to bid, when you yourself don't know what to bid but know your side should be in the bidding. Like any other "takeout double", you are expected to use your judgement. You can decide rather to takeout, or if your hand is suited for it, convert your partners takeout double to penalty. Remember, your HAND HAS TO BE SUITED for this conversion. The lower the double (as in the case with spunik), the less likely you will CONVERT to penalty, the higher the bid when a takout double occurs, THE MORE LIKELY you will convert to penalty.

I recommend you read chapter five in Robson/Segal's book on "competing without a know fit", and especially the part on "The take-out double - a commercial break!" which starts on page 166. Look for the link to Robson/Segal notes on this link... Dan Neill's webpage

Ben
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#3 User is offline   scoob 

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Posted 2004-November-18, 09:25

"snap-dragon" doubles shouldn't be confused with the rest of these, they specifically show the a good 5-card holding in the 4th unbid suit, and a -tolerance- for partner's bid suit

ie.

(1C) - 1H - (1S) - X = diamonds & tolerance for hearts
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Posted 2004-November-18, 09:38

scoob, on Nov 18 2004, 11:25 AM, said:

"snap-dragon" doubles shouldn't be confused with the rest of these, they specifically show the a good 5-card holding in the 4th unbid suit, and a -tolerance- for partner's bid suit

ie.

(1C) - 1H - (1S) - X = diamonds & tolerance for hearts

Less see.. opponents bid TWO SUITS... so double isn't asking partner to bid that those ones... so you double and there is one unbid suit. You want your partner to take out... hmmmm.... what could it be? Long in the unbid suit and "support" or tolerance for partners suit? Call it snapdragon if you want.. this is a takeout double, the actual definition (long in unbid suit, general support) is all it COULD POSSIBLE mean if it is takeout.

Ben
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Posted 2004-November-18, 09:55

inquiry, on Nov 18 2004, 09:38 AM, said:

scoob, on Nov 18 2004, 11:25 AM, said:

"snap-dragon" doubles shouldn't be confused with the rest of these, they specifically show the a good 5-card holding in the 4th unbid suit, and a -tolerance- for partner's bid suit

ie.

(1C) - 1H - (1S) - X = diamonds & tolerance for hearts

Less see.. opponents bid TWO SUITS... so double isn't asking partner to bid that those ones... so you double and there is one unbid suit. You want your partner to take out... hmmmm.... what could it be? Long in the unbid suit and "support" or tolerance for partners suit? Call it snapdragon if you want.. this is a takeout double, the actual definition (long in unbid suit, general support) is all it COULD POSSIBLE mean if it is takeout.

Ben

you're quite right - apparently i need to read the entire post before i start replying :rolleyes:
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