[mishovnbg]

Your hand, p open: QJ109, KQxx, xx, AKx
System: 2/1
Cue bid style - any control,RKCB,no other agreements
Bidding:
Partner You
1DI 1HE
2HE 2NT: general game try+, rf
3DI(values)-4CL(cue bid)
4SP: what hold your parter and what you will bid?
Misho

[pbleighton]

A try from a 2/1 beginner:

3D should show extra values AND good diamonds, probably more than 4 cards, quite possibly 6.. He has 4 hearts (poss 5 but unlikely). Therefore, the 4S may show a singleton, which would degrade the value of your hand. Bid 4NT, and go to slam only if p shows 3 aces.

This is quite possibly too chicken, simplistic, or just plain wrong, but I had to try ;D

[Codo]

I showed slam interest, a club control and problems in spades. After my 4 Club, my pd had four possibilities: 4 Diamond to show extra length or a second diamond control

4 Heart to deny a spade control

4 Spade

4 NT

4 NT had been RCKB, so why didn´t he use it?
I think, that he wants you to ask RCKB, because he described his hand allready very good:
4 or 5 Diamonds, 4 Hearts, 2+ clubs, 12-15 HCPs and a spade control.
So he wants you to ask RCKB and place the contract afterwards

So, my bid is 4 NT.

Kind Regards

Roland

[Rado]

Hi all,
The key is that P bypassed 4Di, which means that his values in DI are AJ(10) or KJ(10), but not KQ or more.
After 4Cl cue, denying Sp cue, P did well to bid his Sp cue (but he may bid 4Di-4He-4Sp too) since on other layouts Sp cue will be the only one thing needed for slam.
So with normal 2He raise:
Kx
AJxx
AJxxx
Jx

our 6He is down, even switching Ksp+Jcl to Ax in Sp and still very bad 6He. My advice is quietly to return to 5He, preparing in mind brief humorous excuse if suddenly 12 tricks found to be easy:-)))))

Regards, Rado

[inquiry]

Quote

Your hand, p open: QJ109, KQxx, xx, AKx
System: 2/1
Cue bid style - any control,RKCB,no other agreements
Bidding:
Partner You
1DI 1HE
2HE 2NT: general game try+, rf
3DI(values)-4CL(cue bid)
4SP: what hold your parter ans what you will bid?
Misho

Ok, 2NT was game try or better (so YOU could have slam interest). I like to play 2NT here as a kind of checkback to find out if my partner REALLY has 4 card heart support and if min/max (but that is another issue.)

Partner bid 3D, co-operating for game try. With no specific agreement, you might not think this would have to be a control cue-bid, promising a diamond control and denying a club control (but that is the best way to play it if not using the checkback thing in case partner's general try is really a slam try).

4C by you CLEARLY denied any spade control what so ever. So if your partner now "cue-bids" 4D, it would, in effect PROMISE not only the diamond control, but also a SPADE control, or if you are playing LAST TRAIN TO CLARKSVILLE would be neutral on diamond control, but once again promise a SPADE control. But you said no other convention, so no LTTC.

I suspect that with no agreement about the meaning of 3D, you might have caught partner with something like one of the following hands.....

a) S-Ax H-Axxx D-AQxxx C-xx
S-Ax H-Axxx D-KQTxx C-xx
c) S-Ax H-Axxx D-KJxxx C-Qx
d) S-AKx H-Axxx D-KTxx C-xx
e) S-AKx H-JTxx D-AQxx C-xx
f)
or possibly something like.....

f) S-x H-Axxx D-AQJTxx C-xx but with this last hand, I am bidding 4D over 2NT.

(I eliminate all hands with either AK of diamonds or a singleton club... Because of lack of club splinter, or 4D re-que bid). I would not play partner for Ax Axxx KQJxx xx as would "upgrade" that to 15hcp and open 1NT.

The more I think about it, the more I think that I like LTTC, and the more likley it is that I think partner is showing a concentration of stuff in spades... hence the SPADE-AK, making hands d and e most likely. Both of these make slam less than 50% of the time (need Diamond hook AND nice 3-2 heart split).

Now what to bid...

Well 4NT blackwood will be somewhat revealing, but not REALLY all that useful. Partner will show one or two aces (no trump queen) and you are no better off. So I will not use that unless I am just going to blast as long as partner has at least one ACE. And I am not going to bid 5 HEARTS, either. So, I will rebid 5C as one more slam try. Sure, lots of people don't play cue-bids at the five level, but this gives partner one more chance to show something useful. And it convey's uncertainty about slam (blackwood would have shown no issue). If he has a surprise hand with 16 points or undisclosed distribution, he is bidding the slam for sure. If he has the club QUEEN in a hand with Ax of spades and Qx of clubs, he will know the queen is golden. If he bids 5D I will close my eyes and bid the slam hoping for the best. If he bids 5H there I sit.

Passing the buck back to partner may not solve this problem, but at least he will know you have fairly good hearts (you didn't check for "queen" with RKB, and you are still trying for slam, you have first two round controls in clubs, you lack a diamond control and you lack both the spade A or K.

[mishovnbg]

Thanks to all for answers. Hands:
QJ109 Kx
KQxx AJxx
xx AJ9xx
AKx xx

In my opinion:
Yes, 3DI show good DI, but not AK because no 4DI cue bid, it also show SP control.
Yes, your p can be min, because he MUST show SP control
Yes, he like you to bid 4NT, if you want that
Yes, singleton SP is possible, but not SURE
4NT RKCB, 5CL cue bid, 5HE - cant decide.

But suppouse you bid after all 6 HE and trump lead...

Can you find best way to play it against average defense? ( Not described in books, ? )

[the hog]

Looked at this Misho - there is no real play for 6. Maybe best play is a d to the 9

[inquiry]

Quote

Looked at this Misho - there is no real play for 6. Maybe best play is a d to the 9

Float the Nine will never work, even against mediocre defense, you denied the SPADE ACE after all. Besides, even if you win 4Diamonds, you will need 1S.

Only chance, pull trumps in 3 rounds, and lead the SPADE JACK. If West is silly enough to duck, and if he held S-Axxxxx H-xx D-QTx Cxx you are home. After the SPADE J wins, hook the diamond Nine. East will be out of Spades, so can't return one. You win 1S, 4H, 4D, 2C, and 1C ruff.

There is a reason they don't teach you this stuff in books... they don't expect their readers to be in such hopeless contracts. Now, if only I can join those readers and just stop bidding to such nonsense contracts myself.... :-)

[mishovnbg]

Before comment how i will bid and play same hand i will write about one conversation with Boyan (PPilot in BBO ). He said that most of "science" bidders have bad card play. His point of view is, that it is because they spend more then need powers to system of bidding and less then need to card play. He is right probably.
I add that bidding is more abstract while card play is pure concrete. In my point of view "table presence" is how fast player can switch between abstract and concrete at table. Now back to problem.
First - play depend of bidding. Normally i will not bid slam here and will bid 5HE. But if i need top result i will bid it via 4NT RKCB - same respectable bid can stop opp from DBL ;D. If you bid 5CL - then no chances here.
Second - play depend also what opp think about you - if you sometimes play with me, you know that i regular bluffing. So nobody can be sure that i have control in CL, .
Third - you must make illusion alternative and leave opp imagination to work for sucsess :.

My play of this board will be relative SLOW ( i have chance to make it - 1 illusion ). I will NOT pull trumps ( why i need it, possible right return - 2 illusion ). I will finesse with JSP as Ben ( i have A SP - 3 illusion ). I will play my high DI for STD and low for UDCA opp and finesse with 9 ( after take DI trick, opp can think that his p have 4 cards in DI - 4 illusion ).
If after all opp return SP, i will just congratulate him on his success :'(.
Misho