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Precision 1D: 4M unbal or bal. Developments?

#1 User is offline   arnoldson 

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Posted 2012-July-18, 06:06

Assuming 1D shows 4M and an unbalanced hand, i.e. a longer minor or 4441 shape, or a variable NT range (11-13 or 14-16 depending on vul/seat), what should the continuations be? Yes, I tried searching.

Courtesy of Bertheau and Nystrom I have:-
1♦-1♥ (nat or relay):
1♠=11-15, 5+m and 4♠, 1NT=BAL, not 4♥, 2♣=4♥ not BAL, 2♦=Max, 4♠ 3♥ +SPL, 2♥=BAL 4♥, 2♠=12-16, 4144, 2NT=Max, 6♦4♥, 3♣=Max, 6♣ 4♥
1♦-1♠ (nat):
1NT=BAL w/o 4♠ or 1444
2m= 5+suit w/ 4♥. and 0-2♠
2H.=4S. any hand
2S.=11-14, 4H. 3S. + SPL
2NT=Good Max w/ SPL and 3S
3.=Max 6+suit w/ 4S
3.=Max 6+suit w/ 4S

Obviously this needs some fleshing out, or alternatively maybe you can think of something better entirely. I'm particularly dubious about the 1D-1S-1NT sequence. This could evidently be anywhere between a flat 11 count and a 1444 15 or even 16.
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#2 User is offline   mattias 

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Posted 2012-July-18, 06:49

This is what we play. The difference is that we don't use relays over 1♦, so the 1♥ response is natural. Because of this we we change the responses slightly. Also, after 1♦ - 1♠ we rebid 2♣/♦ with 1444 if we are out of the balanced range. If we're in the balanced range we can choose between 1NT and 2♣/♦.

After 1♦ - 1♥ - 1♠ the responses are

1NT relay, 11+
2♣ P/C
2♦ 9-12 with 4 spades, continue over a signoff with max
2♥ 9-12 six hearts, compare w. 3♥
2♠ 5-8
2NT GF spade raise
3♣/♦ 4♥ 6m invite
3♥ 11-12 6 hearts good suit

After 1♦ - 1♥ - 1♠ - 1NT

2♣/♦ 11-13 5+minor, 4 spades, 0-2 hearts
2♥ 11-13 5+minor, 4 spades, 3 hearts. Now 2♠ asks for the suit, 2NT is nat non-forcing and 3♣ is P/C
2♠ 11-13 4144
2NT 14-15 4315
3♣ 14-15 4351
3♦ 14-15 4225
3♥ 14-15 4252
3♠ 14-15 4135
3NT 14-15 4153

Over the 14-15 showing bids the lower bids show longer hearts so repsonder can set hearts by bidding 3♥
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#3 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2012-July-18, 06:50

You could certainly start with a "skip bid" base which seems to work quite well opposite this kind of opening:-

1♥ = <4 hearts
... - 1♠ = 4 spades
... - 1NT = nat
... - 2♣ = clubs and hearts
... - 2♦ = diamonds and hearts
1♠ = 4+ hearts, <4 spades
... - 1NT = nat
... - 2♣ = clubs and spades
... - 2♦ = diamonds and spades
... - 2♥ = nat raise

Any of 1NT, 2♣ and/or 2♦ can handle the hands with 4+ hearts and 4+ spades and any unused bids can be employed to catch any awkward hand types.
(-: Zel :-)
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#4 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2012-July-18, 08:10

Do you intend some catchall continue-to-explore
as NmF, Checkback, XYZ?
Or natural rebids not reserving some rebid to
explore? Rather a seat-of-the-pants scheme.
Reserving some general exploring bid frees
up other bids to be clear.
Flesh it out that way seems best.
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#5 User is offline   PrecisionL 

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Posted 2012-July-20, 14:10

I would ask a different question for playing such a 1♦ opening:

Can responder limit his hand so that opener's rebids do not get us too high?

My answer (playing such a 1♦ opening with two partners):

1♥ = Usually 4 or more ♥, may have longer ♠, may be very weak with 3♥ and 0-2 ♦
1♠ = denies 4♥ and less than invitational values (limit raise)
1NT = 6-9 hcp
2♣ = 0-9 hcp and 9 cards or more in the minors: Pass or correct
3♣ = 10-11 hcp (LR) and 9 cards or more in the minors: G.I.

2♦ = LR with or without a 4-cd major or ♦ support
2♥/♠ = G.I. playable opposite a singleton trump
2NT = G.F. asking for singleton or void
3NT = To play

Opener's rebids: 1NT = balanced or 4441 with 1 in responder's suit
2♣ or 2♦ = 5 or 6 in the minor and 4 in the other major
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#6 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2012-July-21, 01:08

View PostZelandakh, on 2012-July-18, 06:50, said:

You could certainly start with a "skip bid" base which seems to work quite well opposite this kind of opening:-

1♥ = <4 hearts
... - 1♠ = 4 spades
... - 1NT = nat
... - 2♣ = clubs and hearts
... - 2♦ = diamonds and hearts
1♠ = 4+ hearts, <4 spades
... - 1NT = nat
... - 2♣ = clubs and spades
... - 2♦ = diamonds and spades
... - 2♥ = nat raise

Any of 1NT, 2♣ and/or 2♦ can handle the hands with 4+ hearts and 4+ spades and any unused bids can be employed to catch any awkward hand types.

Very nice idea.

I wonder if reversing the Majors would be better, because ♠s are most important. Use 1♥ to show <4♠ and 1♠ to show 4+♠. And after 1♦-1♥: 1♠ = 4♥ / 1NT = nat / 2m = 4♠ & 5+m
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