[kenrexford]

Zelandakh, on 2012-July-20, 06:31, said:

How many of those upgraded 19s were 4333 though, ken? I think (almost) everyone here believes it is right to upgrade some 19s.

Yes, but I was responding to the minority who do not, and who do not consider upgrading ever. As to how many were specifically 4333, I did not do any such specific analysis to my memory.

[Quantumcat]

mikl_plkcc, on 2012-July-19, 05:54, said:

If I have a nice 6-card minor, I NEVER open 2NT because my system don't allow me to bid NT with a 6-card suit or a 5-card major. I will try to count tricks, losers and controls and decide whether to open 1 of the minor or 2♣.

I really hate agreeing with the hog, but I'm not going to be rude like him. The problem with not opening these hands in NT is that you have absolutely no rebid when it comes back to you - you are forced to either overbid (by jump-bidding NT and showing more HCP than you have) or underbidding (bidding the same level of NT as the response). When you have a 19 count and a nice six-card club suit, you are really worth much more than opening 1♣ and rebidding 3♣ or 2NT. But what else are you going to rebid? Better to upgrade your hand to 20 or 21 in the first place.

[blackshoe]

kenrexford, on 2012-July-18, 20:23, said:

A109-A109-A109-AK109.

If you don't open this 2NT, you are a serial underbidder.

mikl_plkcc, on 2012-July-19, 05:54, said:

I open 1♣ and rebid 2NT. I bid all balanced hands strictly to the number of HCPs.

George Rosenkranz and his fellows found that controls are more important than HCP in considering strong NT openings (19+ HCP). The Romex structure is:

1NT: 19-20 HCP and six controls (if balanced; 1NT in Romex is artificial and may have an unbalanced hand)
2♦: 21-22 HCP and seven controls, if balanced.
2♣: 23-24 HCP and eight controls
2NT: 25-26 HCP and nine controls (alternatively, open 2♣ and use the Kokish Relay). This 2NT opening is forcing to game.

If the hand has more or fewer than the suggested number of controls (A=2 controls, K=1 control), and is at the upper or lower end of its HCP range, respectively, it will be downgraded or upgraded one step (never more than one step) as appropriate. Ken's example hand would be opened 1NT in spite of the nine controls because it is "only" 19 HCP. If the hand had a Jack, it would be opened 2♦. BTW, the most common response to 1NT is 2♦, showing 6+ HCP, 0-4 controls, and if 3-4 controls, fewer than 3 cover cards. If responder bids this over Ken's example hand, opener will know he has no more than two kings. Higher responses (2♥ through 3♣) show specific numbers of controls. The auction 1NT-2♣-2NT shows the balanced 19-20, denying a four card major, so 3♣ now by responder is not Stayman. If opener had a four card major he would bid 2♦ over 2♣, which acts like Stayman. Responder's 2♣ shows 0-5 HCP.

[Phil]

I played against a Romex pair in the LM's. Was that you Blackshoe?

[kenrexford]

blackshoe, on 2012-July-26, 07:35, said:

George Rosenkranz and his fellows found that controls are more important than HCP in considering strong NT openings (19+ HCP). The Romex structure is:

1NT: 19-20 HCP and six controls (if balanced; 1NT in Romex is artificial and may have an unbalanced hand)
2♦: 21-22 HCP and seven controls, if balanced.
2♣: 23-24 HCP and eight controls
2NT: 25-26 HCP and nine controls (alternatively, open 2♣ and use the Kokish Relay). This 2NT opening is forcing to game.

If the hand has more or fewer than the suggested number of controls (A=2 controls, K=1 control), and is at the upper or lower end of its HCP range, respectively, it will be downgraded or upgraded one step (never more than one step) as appropriate. Ken's example hand would be opened 1NT in spite of the nine controls because it is "only" 19 HCP. If the hand had a Jack, it would be opened 2♦. BTW, the most common response to 1NT is 2♦, showing 6+ HCP, 0-4 controls, and if 3-4 controls, fewer than 3 cover cards. If responder bids this over Ken's example hand, opener will know he has no more than two kings. Higher responses (2♥ through 3♣) show specific numbers of controls. The auction 1NT-2♣-2NT shows the balanced 19-20, denying a four card major, so 3♣ now by responder is not Stayman. If opener had a four card major he would bid 2♦ over 2♣, which acts like Stayman. Responder's 2♣ shows 0-5 HCP.

Since the 2NT range in normal worlds is 20-21, my example would be upgraded, because the 1minor...2NT range is 18-19. For that matter, any hand with three Aces and a King (or better) would be upgraded as to controls using that theory.I personally tweak this to consider an upgrade with 7+ controls, but then I evaluate shape (4-3-3-3 being a negative) but also under-evaluated 10's and 9's. If you expect that everyone has one 10 and one 9 on average, with a 2NT opening having slightly fewer than average "on average" because of so many honors taking up useful space, then anything more than one 10 and one 9, in useful places, is a plus. I need at least enough 10's and 9's to overtake the downgrade from the 4-3-3-3 shape problem. Obviously, four 10's and four 9's is CLEARLY enough. What number of useful 10's and 9's is enough is a fine line that could be discussed.