[Yu18772]

Hi all

Sorry for the super-long post - I wanted to ask opinions about several types of hands. My partner for Philly and I were practicing bidding, and trying to see how auctions 1♥-2m-2♠ without showing extras work out for us (this style is advocated by Justin here: http://www.bridgebas...__1#entry571082 - and supported by many other people whose opinion on this subject I appreciate much more than my own.) Importantly, I have no intention of repeating the discussion about this style, but would really like advise on handling different types of hands within that framework ...pls pls pls !
I tried to be as specific as possible in my questions, but please feel free to cover any other grounds that you think is relevant.
General system agreements: 2/1gf, modified bergen, Jacoby2NT, semi-forcing 1NT, 4th suit gf, 4th suit in 2/1 artificial.
Not too much discussion, I am Israeli she is American - so the only assumed agreements are these ones and common sense (both of us are fairly advanced players, but not expert, at least me ). We open aggressively, and the 2/1 gf bid is pretty solid.
Possible auctions are:
1♥-2♣/♦
2♠-
1. Does 2♠ by opener deny 6+ hearts, and does 2♥ absolutely denies 4 card spades?
2. We assumed that any bid of a minor or NT denies real fit in one of the majors. So:

a. Does 2NT by responder promise any kind of balanced or semi-blanced hand? Does it deny 6+ cards in the minor?
b. Does it promise a solid stopper in the 4th suit or just half stopper?
c. Should 2NT be employed as "waiting bid" - when you just want the partner to shape out, without any particular promise?
d. Who is the "captain" of that auction at least at this stage?
e. Does rebidding the minor promise 6 card suit or just no fit and denies a stopper in the 4th suit?

3. Over 2NT by responder -

a. If opener bids responders minor it is presumably 3 card suit showing 45(13). Is it still shaping out if opener rebids other minor (4th suit) or is it showing a real problem for 3NT in that suit?

b. If opener rebids 3♥ (showing 6) - is 3♠ by responder a cue or prefernce to play in ♠? Does 3♥ require cuebidding (since opener is unlimited)?

4. If responder rebids the minor - 1♥-2♣/♦ -2♠- 3♣/♦

a. Doest that bid deny interest in playing 3NT if opener has 3 card minor support? Should opener always bid 4♣/♦ with 3 card support, or does it show some extra, and minimum would be 5?
b. When responders minor is ♣, what is 3♦ by opener - a general question bid asking for further description (potentially NT oriented), or minimum without stopper and nothing to add? Does 3NT now by responder show a ♦ stopper, or did 3♣ deny it, and 3NT is just I dont want to play any of the major suits?
c. Does 3♥ by opener still show 6 card suit or is it a default "nothing better to say" bid?

5. Finally on the spade-fitting hands:

1♥-2m
2♠-3♠
We assumed that 4♠ is absolute minimum, and 3♠ is extra (but not a lot of extra can be any 14+, or any hand with 4 spades and singelton etc...), unlimited - is that reasonable? Over 3♠ is opener obliged to cue, or does it show real extra? What is 3NT (no agreement of serious/unserious)?

I apologize for the very long post.....any replies would be very appreciated
Yu

[FrancesHinden]

There aren't any "this is definitely right" answers to your questions.
We play 2♠ as not showing extras, so here are our agreements.

1. You can't play both that 2S denies 6 hearts and that 2H denies 4 spades; you either allow a bit of flexibility or you agree on one or the other. We play step 1 after a 2/1 as artificial, so after 1H-2C- we usually bid 2H with 4-6 as this promises 6 hearts and allows responder to bid a cheap 2S natural; but after 1H-2D- we always bid 2S with 4-6 as 2H is artificial (and we don't have a continuation to show 4-6). Even if you don't play this particular method, it's worth agreeing what to do with 4-6s, and this is then related to what your default minimum rebid is; if a 2H rebid could be a 5332 anyway then you should bid 2S with 4-6 as otherwise your 2H rebid doesn't say anything useful. If a 2H rebid promises 6, then I'd bid 2H with 4-6 as responder can bid 2S cheaply. If you don't agree what to do, you don't know if responder's 2S bid is natural or not. It also matters a bit what you respond with, say, 4234.

2a/b We play 2NT as natural but promising a stop in the 4th suit, and 3 of the 4th suit as artificial not having anything better to bid.
c You could do; I don't like this as it wrong-sides 3NT
d Nobody yet. You are both describing your hand.
e for me rebidding the minor shows a serious suit; with nothing better I bid the 4th suit artificial

3a for me, bidding the 4th suit here shows doubt, which would imply extra values but no good bid (cheaper than raising to 4NT and less committal). I think many Americans will say it's natural.
3b. 3S sounds like some sort of random lurk with something in spades. Of course, 3H only shows 6 hearts if 2S didn't deny them...


4a. No, but opener isn't going to bid 3NT with a singleton and if responder has a stop in the 4th suit he's also interested in slam opposite support
4b. For me 3D is still 4th suit & artificial - what does opener bid on a 4522 with no diamond stop?

5 Even if you haven't agreed to play serious/non-serious you really want to play it here.
4c. after 1H-2C-2S-3C- 3H shows 6 (or a good 5 if he's denied 6) while 3D is the "i don't know what to bid" bid; but 1H-2D-2S-3D-3H is the "I don't know what to bid" bid

[Yu18772]

Frances - thank you very very much. This is very helpful.
I cant go over it thoroughly at this moment, but would you mind if I email you few questions later?


Yu

[Free]

If you swap the meaning of 2♠ and 2♥ (2♥ showing 4♠, 2♠ showing 6+♥ without 4♠) you can use 1♥-2m-2♥-2♠ as a relay. This is similar to using 2NT as a relay, but it gives you a lot of valueable space. You need to pattern out and you need to show min/max. It also leaves responder the opportunity to bid 2NT (I play this as a relay with ♠ fit) or 4th suit. After showing 6+♥, responder doesn't need to bid ♠s naturally anymore, so the lost step isn't that big of a deal.

I've been playing this style quite some time now, and I love it.

Note that this makes your 1M structures almost identical, because after 1M-2m, 2♥ shows 4OM and 2♠ shows 6+M.

[bluecalm]

Yeah, swap and use 2S as relay with 3+card support and 2NT as relay denying 3card support (similar to 1S - 2m - 2H - 2S/2N). That's Italian way, works great imo.

1H - 2C
2S - 2N is now relay and continuations are usual:
-3c = 4clubs
-3d = 3exactly 3clubs (then relay for 6th heart)
-3h = 6hearts, 11-14
-3S = 6hearts, 15+

Another advantage of this style is that you don't have to jump around and clog the auction with 6+H and 15+hcp thus direct jumps to 3H/3S might be used for other hands (LV use them for 5M-5C but you may use it for 7+M for example).