Drop the Queen ACBL
#1
Posted 2012-July-01, 13:54
I also know that missing 4 cards in the suit that they are more likely to be 3-1 rather than 2-2.
Can someone explain the math on playing for the drop.
Thank you
#2
Posted 2012-July-01, 14:01
As for the maths, to deal with round numbers, a 2-2 break is 40% while a 3-1 break either way is 50%. However, the key point is that the 3-1 is either way. Once LHO follows to the second round, he can no longer have started with 1 so the appropriate odds are 40:25 for drop/finesse. Yes, you can add 12% to either option for stiff Q.
#3
Posted 2012-July-01, 14:58
manudude03, on 2012-July-01, 14:01, said:
As for the maths, to deal with round numbers, a 2-2 break is 40% while a 3-1 break either way is 50%. However, the key point is that the 3-1 is either way. Once LHO follows to the second round, he can no longer have started with 1 so the appropriate odds are 40:25 for drop/finesse. Yes, you can add 12% to either option for stiff Q.
This is not quite right and the odds are not nearly so far.
Originally there were six possible 2-2 breaks (four choose two is six) and eight possible 3-1 breaks (four singletons, and the singleton can be on either side). 2-2 break is 40.7% and 3-1 break is 49.7%, so if we divide we get that each particular 2-2 break is 40.7/6 = 6.78% and each particular 3-1 break is 49.7/8 = 6.21%. Now that we have seen three cards at the point where we make the decision, only a single 2-2 break remains possible (queen in the fourth hand) and only a single 3-1 break remains possible (queen in the second hand). Thus the odds favor the drop by 6.78:6.21 which is just a little better than even odds.
If you know something else about the hand (for example, regarding distribution in the other suits) it can easily swing things in favor of taking the finesse.
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
#4
Posted 2012-July-01, 15:15
dickiegera, on 2012-July-01, 13:54, said:
I also know that missing 4 cards in the suit that they are more likely to be 3-1 rather than 2-2.
Can someone explain the math on playing for the drop.
Thank you
Without worrying about the exact numbers, you reconcile the apparent contraction by noticing that although they are more likely to be 3-1 either way round than 2-2, when LHO follows to the second round, he can't have a singleton so you are now comparing 3-1 with length on one particular side, with 2-2. The former is less likely.
#5
Posted 2012-July-01, 15:16
As has been Implied if you know anything about the distribution of another suit, you can adjust the 11:12 spaces and decide.
#6
Posted 2012-July-01, 15:31
dickiegera, on 2012-July-01, 13:54, said:
I also know that missing 4 cards in the suit that they are more likely to be 3-1 rather than 2-2.
Can someone explain the math on playing for the drop.
Thank you
a specific 3-1 is less likely than a specific 2-2. For instance, West having 3 and East having 1 might be 25 %, 2-2 might be 40 %, and thus east having 3 and west having 1 is also 25 %.
Here, you would be playing for 1 person specifically to have 3 which would be less likely than that player having 2 given those numbers.
#7
Posted 2012-July-01, 16:56
"Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself."
"One advantage of bad bidding is that you get practice at playing atrocious contracts."
-Alfred Sheinwold
#8
Posted 2012-July-01, 17:16
dickiegera, on 2012-July-01, 13:54, said:
I also know that missing 4 cards in the suit that they are more likely to be 3-1 rather than 2-2.
Can someone explain the math on playing for the drop.
Thank you
With no inferences, the Bridge Encyclopedia states that " the finesse is a 50% probability of success holding 8 cards, while the drop has a 53% holding 9 cards ".
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall
" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh
K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
#9
Posted 2012-July-01, 17:25
#10
Posted 2012-July-01, 20:30
Once you played 2 round and the opponent follows low, the Q is the only missing card. The opponent that already played low card has 1 space less than the opponent that did not play to hold that card. The difference in % is so small though that if you have any indication about the Q from bidding or play you should finesse.
Yu
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
#11
Posted 2012-July-01, 22:30